Active Shooter

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:26 am

Gab, btw, is crying because PayPal cut them off. Not sorry to see them cry.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:28 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:26 am
Gab, btw, is crying because PayPal cut them off. Not sorry to see them cry.
PayPal cut them off just now over this, or some time ago over general lack of respectability?
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:43 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Next up, watch for that scumbag Louis Farrakhan to praise the shooter for eliminating eleven "termites."

See for example:
Twitter shrugs off Louis Farrakhan 'anti-Termite' tweet about Jewish people

Will the mainstream media condemn Louis Farrakhan for inciting violence against Jews?

No?

They excoriated Trump for Florida Man Pipe Bomber™ even before they knew who did it.

Hypocrites.

If the mainstream media want to stop being called the enemy of the people, then perhaps they should stop acting like it.
The free press is not the enemy of the people.I've no respect for people who claim that it is.
I wasn't referring to the free press. But thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

The (unspecified subset of) the press that publishes false narratives is indeed the enemy of the people. I have no respect for people who defend fake news, especially malicious fake news.

Members of the press have the first amendment right to publish whatever they like (including fake news) and likewise I have the same right to criticize when they behave like the enemy of the people bastards.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:01 am

Followup question:
Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
The free press is not the enemy of the people.
If I may ask, what term would you prefer be used to describe (an unquantified subset of) the press when it behaves despicably in reporting false news narratives or when it acts in a manner destructive to the founding principles of this country?

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:34 am

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by shemp » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Next up, watch for that scumbag Louis Farrakhan to praise the shooter for eliminating eleven "termites."

See for example:
Twitter shrugs off Louis Farrakhan 'anti-Termite' tweet about Jewish people

Will the mainstream media condemn Louis Farrakhan for inciting violence against Jews?

No?

They excoriated Trump for Florida Man Pipe Bomber™ even before they knew who did it.

Hypocrites.

If the mainstream media want to stop being called the enemy of the people, then perhaps they should stop acting like it.
The free press is not the enemy of the people.I've no respect for people who claim that it is.
What Pyrrho said. Xouper, you and your kind are the real enemies of the American people. You constantly deride an institution that was vital to the founding and freedom of this nation. Without a free press, there is no America.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by shemp » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:16 am

xouper wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:43 am
Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Next up, watch for that scumbag Louis Farrakhan to praise the shooter for eliminating eleven "termites."

See for example:
Twitter shrugs off Louis Farrakhan 'anti-Termite' tweet about Jewish people

Will the mainstream media condemn Louis Farrakhan for inciting violence against Jews?

No?

They excoriated Trump for Florida Man Pipe Bomber™ even before they knew who did it.

Hypocrites.

If the mainstream media want to stop being called the enemy of the people, then perhaps they should stop acting like it.
The free press is not the enemy of the people.I've no respect for people who claim that it is.
I wasn't referring to the free press. But thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

The (unspecified subset of) the press that publishes false narratives is indeed the enemy of the people. I have no respect for people who defend fake news, especially malicious fake news.

Members of the press have the first amendment right to publish whatever they like (including fake news) and likewise I have the same right to criticize when they behave like the enemy of the people bastards.
You don't have a fucking clue when it comes to who's publishing false narratives. You can't backtrack on your previous post and expect that people should believe you. You don't have the right to cry "fire" in the theater. You and your kind are vermin who undermine freedom and truth. Go eat a bag of dicks and die in a fire.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Giz » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:17 am

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 am
Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Next up, watch for that scumbag Louis Farrakhan to praise the shooter for eliminating eleven "termites."

See for example:
Twitter shrugs off Louis Farrakhan 'anti-Termite' tweet about Jewish people

Will the mainstream media condemn Louis Farrakhan for inciting violence against Jews?

No?

They excoriated Trump for Florida Man Pipe Bomber™ even before they knew who did it.

Hypocrites.

If the mainstream media want to stop being called the enemy of the people, then perhaps they should stop acting like it.
The free press is not the enemy of the people.I've no respect for people who claim that it is.
What Pyrrho said. Xouper, you and your kind are the real enemies of the American people. You constantly deride an institution that was vital to the founding and freedom of this nation. Without a free press, there is no America.
Did you hate Abraham Lincoln?

" a bogus item that appeared in two Copperhead newspapers out of New York — the Journal of Commerce and the World. The papers ran a fake story that reported a presidential proclamation to the effect that the Lincoln administration was about to draft 400,000 men. According to Tedford and Herbeck, “Lincoln ordered the two newspapers closed and their owners arrested and imprisoned. The Independent Telegraph System, which had transmitted the story, was seized by the military and its transmissions stopped.”"

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by shemp » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:21 am

Giz wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:17 am
shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 am
Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:05 am
xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Next up, watch for that scumbag Louis Farrakhan to praise the shooter for eliminating eleven "termites."

See for example:
Twitter shrugs off Louis Farrakhan 'anti-Termite' tweet about Jewish people

Will the mainstream media condemn Louis Farrakhan for inciting violence against Jews?

No?

They excoriated Trump for Florida Man Pipe Bomber™ even before they knew who did it.

Hypocrites.

If the mainstream media want to stop being called the enemy of the people, then perhaps they should stop acting like it.
The free press is not the enemy of the people.I've no respect for people who claim that it is.
What Pyrrho said. Xouper, you and your kind are the real enemies of the American people. You constantly deride an institution that was vital to the founding and freedom of this nation. Without a free press, there is no America.
Did you hate Abraham Lincoln?

" a bogus item that appeared in two Copperhead newspapers out of New York — the Journal of Commerce and the World. The papers ran a fake story that reported a presidential proclamation to the effect that the Lincoln administration was about to draft 400,000 men. According to Tedford and Herbeck, “Lincoln ordered the two newspapers closed and their owners arrested and imprisoned. The Independent Telegraph System, which had transmitted the story, was seized by the military and its transmissions stopped.”"
This is relevant today, how?

The newspapers of that era were operated by political parties. Most of them weren't anything like a free press. I'm not quite sure what your point is.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:38 am

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 am
What Pyrrho said. Xouper, you and your kind are the real enemies of the American people. You constantly deride an institution that was vital to the founding and freedom of this nation. Without a free press, there is no America.
You are mistaken about what I am saying.

You (and Pyrrho) have erected a huge straw man in place of my actual argument.

I agree that without a free press, there is no America.

I agree that the press is an institution that was vital to the founding and freedom of this nation.

Contrary to your delusional interpretation, I am not deriding that institution.

I am not the enemy of the American people. I AM the American people. And we can see the kinds of destruction that certain parts of the media are doing to this country. If you can't see that, then YOU are part of the problem.

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:16 am
You don't have a fucking clue when it comes to who's publishing false narratives.
That is factually incorrect.

You have absolutely no evidence to support your bogus and malicious accusation, because no such evidence exists.

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:16 am
You can't backtrack on your previous post and expect that people should believe you.
More straw men.

And yet you have the nerve to expect people to believe you instead of me about what I meant.

I am the final arbiter of what I intended to say and what my words were supposed to mean, not you.

Whether people believe me, that is up to them, not me, and certainly not you.

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:16 am
You don't have the right to cry "fire" in the theater.
More straw men.

I never claimed such a right. This is yet another clear example of your failure to comprehend what I wrote.

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:16 am
You and your kind are vermin who undermine freedom and truth. Go eat a bag of dicks and die in a fire.
Wrong again.

If you support fake news and libelous reporting, which it seems you are doing here, then it is you who are the vermin who undermine freedom and truth, not me.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Giz » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:41 am

I expressed myself poorly.

The point is; you are making a category error.

There is : criticising the concept of the importance of having a free press

Then there is: criticism of specific press outlets.

Criticising Gab or CNN is not an unamerican heresy.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:59 am

After all, freedom of the press does include the freedom to do anti-American hate propaganda.

And freedom of speech means I (or a president) can accuse CNN of being anti-American hate propaganda.

And no "balancing" of rights that needs to be done. Both are 100% OK. There is no contradiction in that.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by shemp » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:13 am

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid boys, there's plenty to go around.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Giz » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:21 am

shemp wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:13 am
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid boys, there's plenty to go around.
Yes, I know you would never be so anti the free press as to criticize Fox News.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am

The phrase "the mainstream media" is a very large basket term. The phrase "enemy of the people" is self-serving political rhetoric that ill becomes the President of the United States.

And no, "the mainstream media" is not the "enemy of the people", nor are they acting like it.

Like it or not, "the mainstream media" is part of "the free press" and as such they are necessary to a free republic/democracy/country.

Enough. Now that this thread has diverted into political arguments, I'm done with it. I'm more concerned about the dead and injured.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:29 am

CNN is not just Trump's enemy.

They were doing anti-American hate propaganda at least since the Gulf War.

Look up what FDR said about (journalist) Westbrook Pegler.
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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:19 pm

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Giz » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:27 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am
The phrase "the mainstream media" is a very large basket term. The phrase "enemy of the people" is self-serving political rhetoric that ill becomes the President of the United States.

And no, "the mainstream media" is not the "enemy of the people", nor are they acting like it.
when the non-fox msm are almost entirely critical, there's going to be push back.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:42 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am
The phrase "the mainstream media" is a very large basket term. The phrase "enemy of the people" is self-serving political rhetoric that ill becomes the President of the United States.
Thanks for explaining that your understanding of the term "enemy of the people" carries political baggage that I had not intended.

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am
And no, "the mainstream media" is not the "enemy of the people", nor are they acting like it.
Not all of them, no. I did not mean to imply they are all guilty.

Nonetheless, the evidence is overwhelming that some in the media are indeed acting like they consider that half of the population are the bad guys.

For example, if CNN doesn't like it when large numbers of people say "CNN sucks", then perhaps CNN should consider stop doing whatever it is that gets them that reputation. There's a reason CNN's ratings are in decline. CNN sucks. Not all of it. Just a bigly chunk of it.

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am
Enough. Now that this thread has diverted into political arguments, I'm done with it.
You can blame a certain subset of the media who have chosen to politicize this shooting. In any case, I wasn't the one who initiated the diversion into political arguments. Shemp, for example, should get some credit for that.

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:21 am
I'm more concerned about the dead and injured.
That's a fair and reasonable choice.

I assume you are sincere and not just virtue signalling (as certain others in this forum sometimes do). That is to say, I assume you are not implying that the rest of us are not also concerned about the victims. It should go without saying that your choice of how to prioritize your concerns does not delegitimize anyone else's choices of what to discuss in this thread. It also goes without saying, it is entirely possible to have simultaneous conversations about our concerns for the victims, and also about the politicization (by some in the media) of the incident, all intermingled in the same thread. This is not an either/or choice.

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Re: Active Shooter

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:48 pm

Here's what we know so far about Robert Bowers, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting suspect

Sounds like he was really upset about the "migrant caravan" among other things. He blamed Jews for this and particularly a charity called HIAS. (Whether they had any involvement in the "caravan" I'm not sure.)
While in custody and receiving medical treatment, Bowers told a SWAT officer he wanted all Jews to die and also that "they (Jews) were committing genocide to his people," according to the police criminal complaint.
In that Gab post, Bowers said he "can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I'm going in."
https://www.hias.org/history
Founded in 1881 originally to assist Jews fleeing pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe, HIAS has touched the life of nearly every Jewish family in America and now welcomes all who have fled persecution.

From our beginnings in a storefront on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, a group of American Jews organized to provide much-needed comfort and aid to thousands of Jews fleeing waves of anti-Semitic riots. While those who arrived were refugees – people who were being killed in their homelands because of who they were – the world did not yet have a legal concept for people who needed safe refuge outside their homelands.

In New York City, the once tiny Russian Jewish population swelled by the thousands. They formed the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society to provide meals, transportation and jobs for the new arrivals to Manhattan.
Basically in his worldview giving aid and comfort to refugees is equivalent to "genocide."

Obviously he's not a Trump supporter. He's on the same spectrum though. Just a more extreme version of it. Trump is not nationalist enough for his taste, because Trump doesn't hate Jews.
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