Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Skeeve » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:20 pm

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:36 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:06 pm
But do you think there will really be an EO in the first place?
Yes, why wouldn't there? This is Trump's MO. The purpose is to get the no-borders Democrats to show who they really are.
I say the immediate MO is get out the vote.

He may do something of substance on immigration after the election, but not this.

For the time being I'll shut up about it, but if it gets to be a week after the election and no EO I'll start yapping again. 8)
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by corplinx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm

The democrats are weak on borders. Orange Man keeps doing things to remind people of it.

You can be a lot of things and get elected, but being seen as doing a French style surrender to a invading caravan doesn't play well.

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:16 pm

"Weak" on borders?

That's like saying Carrie Nation was weak on alcohol. :)
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:23 pm
Gnome, have you found a Democrat yet who supports enforcing immigration laws? Who thinks there should be limits to immigration? Who thinks we should be able to pick and choose who enters our country?
Would members of the "Gang of Eight" count?
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:50 pm

That was 2013, this is now.

I'm afraid he's right on this one.
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by corplinx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:55 pm

"Weak" on borders is a manipulation technique.

"Doesn't believe in borders" is awkward.

"Weak" on borders frames the people for open borders as wimpy, effete, spineless.

Abdul, this is part of Trump's persuasion game versus an attempt at accuracy of nomenclature.

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:01 pm

So does that mean SC is the test market for Trump's latest framings? :lmao:
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:23 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:01 pm
So does that mean SC is the test market for Trump's latest framings? :lmao:
That would be Twitter.

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by WildCat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:28 pm

gnome wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:23 pm
Gnome, have you found a Democrat yet who supports enforcing immigration laws? Who thinks there should be limits to immigration? Who thinks we should be able to pick and choose who enters our country?
Would members of the "Gang of Eight" count?
Sure, if you can quote them in 2018.
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:17 pm

In 2013 the Democrats had just won (again) and were not trying to immanentize the eschaton.
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by shuize » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 pm

I've read an argument that the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" section of the Fourteenth Amendment excludes children of illegal immigrants from birthright citizenship.

I am not convinced. I believe that phrase was included to maintain the status quo with the Native American nations, whose members were not recognized as U.S. citizens when the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified in 1868. Native Americans were not granted U.S. citizenship until 1924.

However, if I have time, I might look into the legislative history to see what the drafters had to say about it.

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by corplinx » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:36 am

This is too serious, let the shitposts begin!

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Witness » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:17 am

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Skeeve » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:48 am

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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:00 am

I am so unsurprised to see how happy everyone is that The Supreme Court will now just be a rubberstamp for Trump.
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Skeeve » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:10 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:00 am
I am so unsurprised to see how happy everyone is that The Supreme Court will now just be a rubberstamp for Trump.
Don't you think that is just a tad premature Naryl?
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:15 am

Your post is gloating about it.

In a couple of months, once the GOP gets a filibuster-proof majority and the new Congress start, Trump will be able to rule by decree. Anything he wants, Congress will pass and the Supreme Court will approve 5-4.

Anything. Party loyalty trumps everything. No pun intended. Including the Constitution. No one has actually given a shit about that ratty old document, except as a cudgel, in decades.
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Skeeve » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:19 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:15 am
Your post is gloating about it.

...snip...

Anything. Party loyalty trumps everything. No pun intended.
My post was just a shit post, corplinx started them a few posts back...

Feel free to contribute one of your own.

:)
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Re: Trump Vows To End Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:17 am

There's also a law passed by congress in 1952:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401

See applicable definitions:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/515.329

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/515.330

What it says is that "Any person actually within the United States" is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. So even if the constitution doesn't spell it out, the law does.
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