the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:56 pm

Keep them out of the country. At least that's what I think ed is getting at.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:57 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:47 pm
Still not getting it.

There is a helluva a lot of middle ground between "Kill every Muslim man, woman, and child on the planet" and "Give in to Muslim theocracy"
No one suggested the former.

I think the answer is having the courage to defend your values in your own country. We have free speech. We have laws against violence. Your feelings are bullshit and don't enter into the equation.


The europeans, having given us bloodletting on a global scale thru their cowardice are, once again, setting the stage for a blowup of major proportions. Their obsequious admittance of refugees from a truly alien culture, whose values are inimical to those of the west, will, necessarily, drive their population to "correct". The result will be similar to the reaction of the Germans to Versailles in creating a Hitler.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by gnome » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm

ed wrote:
Point is that our values, the bill of rights essentially, is antithetical to the glue that holds Islam together. And the useful idiots pave the road with sanctimony.
Let us agree that this is true at least in part--that there exist values practiced within Islam that are antithetical as described. I think there is an opportunity there as well as a danger. If people or groups of people fitting that description are exposed to our best values, it can be our values that influence them, not only vice versa. Is our culture not infective, so to speak? I think it may be more so than most. In that case, exposure and assimilation can start to divest Islam of its worst tendencies. Whether there is anything cohesive afterwards is a good question but it's a favorable outcome either way.

So for me, the big question is: what policies and plans create more assimilation, more constructive exposure, as opposed to creating more isolation and hardening of these traits?

This is not to say to fail to defend ourselves against physical attack, but to respond to questions of the overall cultural clash. If "our" culture is possibly at risk of harm from "theirs", why hold our best tool behind our back?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:17 pm

gnome wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm
ed wrote:
Point is that our values, the bill of rights essentially, is antithetical to the glue that holds Islam together. And the useful idiots pave the road with sanctimony.
Let us agree that this is true at least in part--that there exist values practiced within Islam that are antithetical as described. I think there is an opportunity there as well as a danger. If people or groups of people fitting that description are exposed to our best values, it can be our values that influence them, not only vice versa. Is our culture not infective, so to speak? I think it may be more so than most. In that case, exposure and assimilation can start to divest Islam of its worst tendencies. Whether there is anything cohesive afterwards is a good question but it's a favorable outcome either way.

So for me, the big question is: what policies and plans create more assimilation, more constructive exposure, as opposed to creating more isolation and hardening of these traits?

This is not to say to fail to defend ourselves against physical attack, but to respond to questions of the overall cultural clash. If "our" culture is possibly at risk of harm from "theirs", why hold our best tool behind our back?

Is death for apostasy negotiable? Or death for a man knowing a man? What about making fun of the prophet? These are not little differences, this is religion. Belief sans evidence.

I realized a long time ago that when dealing with absolutists you cannot negotiate. You simply hold your ideological ground.

Would you compromise our bill of rights?
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:21 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:56 pm
Keep them out of the country. At least that's what I think ed is getting at.
No, not necessarily.

People wanting to come in have one question to answer: "What do you bring to the party?" That they, without exception, observe our laws is a given. They have a prob with chicks in bathing suits? Fuck you, go pound sand (literally) . We do not have to accommodate to you and your dumb beliefs.

Our game our rules. Not hard to understand.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Skeeve » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:32 pm

Islam seems to be out breeding the west.

If the wogs out breed the west, population pressure will do a lot of the work for them...

Well, population pressure, and well-meaning globalist idiots who seem to be pushing the "vibrant enrichment"
of foreign cultures (who despise what they consider the decadent west) into the west....

If you want a preview, look at Sueeeeeee-den Sweden.

Look at the Pakastani-Muslim Asian grooming gangs in the UK...

Yes, a success, a flaming success...

I give Hungary a gold star for fighting back against the general insanity of the EU.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Giz » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:43 pm

gnome wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm


So for me, the big question is: what policies and plans create more assimilation, more constructive exposure, as opposed to creating more isolation and hardening of these traits?
We need to expound upon the positives of western civ. Magna carta, bill of rights, constitution etc. The struggle for reasoned knowledge (think of the books demon haunted world and cosmos).

At the moment, we teach kids of the evils of our civilization and seem determined to let in lots of low skilled males who won't be able to do much more than Walmart greeter duties.

Meanwhile, the opposition gets to paint a seductive picture of meaning, of righteousness, of being important. A worthy cause that people can sign on to for validation (and violence without guilt). It's all bullshit, but probably sells better than agonized "all of the world's ills are the fault of our founding fathers and this morally bankrupt country".

The story of western civilization, and America as its culmination, is the story of humanities greatest triumph to date. But I don't think our culture or education really makes that point.

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:58 pm

So, the peaceful nationalist solution -- have separate countries. :)
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Witness » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:57 am

gnome wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm
If people or groups of people fitting that description are exposed to our best values, it can be our values that influence them, not only vice versa. Is our culture not infective, so to speak? I think it may be more so than most. In that case, exposure and assimilation can start to divest Islam of its worst tendencies.
I see the immigration problem more at its source: hellholes. Religion as a placebo when your life is miserable, without any local means to escape that. Add generalized corruption, be it to get rich or/and to stay in power. And some form of theocracy comes in handy.

So, utopian solution: turn them into average customers. After the 1 – 2 generations needed for the religious rabies to die out, they'll be happy to be more concerned about their car/wide screen TV/vacation than about saving their wretched souls.

:P

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by WildCat » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:13 am

Witness wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:57 am
So, utopian solution: turn them into average customers. After the 1 – 2 generations needed for the religious rabies to die out, they'll be happy to be more concerned about their car/wide screen TV/vacation than about saving their wretched souls.

:P
It doesn't seem to be dying out in Europe. In France they segregate themselves in the Paris suburban ghettos and create their own separate societies and the religious fervor is unabated.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Giz » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:17 am

WildCat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:13 am
Witness wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:57 am
So, utopian solution: turn them into average customers. After the 1 – 2 generations needed for the religious rabies to die out, they'll be happy to be more concerned about their car/wide screen TV/vacation than about saving their wretched souls.

:P
It doesn't seem to be dying out in Europe. In France they segregate themselves in the Paris suburban ghettos and create their own separate societies and the religious fervor is unabated.
You need small enough communities that integration is forced to happen.

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:18 am

Witness wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:57 am
gnome wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm
If people or groups of people fitting that description are exposed to our best values, it can be our values that influence them, not only vice versa. Is our culture not infective, so to speak? I think it may be more so than most. In that case, exposure and assimilation can start to divest Islam of its worst tendencies.
I see the immigration problem more at its source: hellholes. Religion as a placebo when your life is miserable, without any local means to escape that. Add generalized corruption, be it to get rich or/and to stay in power. And some form of theocracy comes in handy.

So, utopian solution: turn them into average customers. After the 1 – 2 generations needed for the religious rabies to die out, they'll be happy to be more concerned about their car/wide screen TV/vacation than about saving their wretched souls.

:P
I suspect that they would be incredulous at this suggestion, that it would work I mean.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Witness » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:55 am

WildCat wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:13 am
It doesn't seem to be dying out in Europe. In France they segregate themselves in the Paris suburban ghettos and create their own separate societies and the religious fervor is unabated.
Technically correct, but neglects history: unskilled laborers imported from North Africa, then a lost war against the Algerian colony with terrorism on the mainland (which didn't endear them to the locals), then De Gaulle remodeling Paris for more cars and kicking the poor out of the city, latent racism and therefore poor job opportunities and difficulty in finding lodgings elsewhere than the run-down "cités".

Clearly the République™, proud of being "universal", failed them by making them second class citizens, or even delinquents, instead of having a decent assimilation program.

So they didn't "segregate themselves" from the start, but were segregated. It's only recently that Islam has made a come-back there: every human needs some pride and prefers being treated as… well, a human being. (Most are uncultured, of course, and it's a kind of pop-Islam.)

You'd be astonished at the number of anti-Arab slurs in the French language.

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Giz » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:40 am

Well, they should have hammered Martel when they had the chance.

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:32 am

I see what you did there.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Giz » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Yeah, I could go on Tour

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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Bwahahaha.
You put tge cap on that one
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Skeeve » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Giz wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:40 am
Well, they should have hammered Martel when they had the chance.
ed wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:32 am
I see what you did there.
Giz wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:13 pm
Yeah, I could go on Tour
:rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot:

Poor Charlie, must be turning in his grave given his neighbors are practiclly all muslims...

Speaking of vibrant enrichment: Open door to migrants makes Germany terror hub of Europe
On the surface, at least, Yamen Alahmad was a model refugee, a Syrian teenager apparently motivated only by the hope of starting a new life far from the hell of his homeland.

Last week, however, Germany’s anti-terrorism police kicked in the door to the flat the state had granted him in the northern city of Schwerin. The officers had evidence that Alahmad was building a bomb.

As if more evidence were needed of the terrorist threat facing Europe, the 19-year-old had arrived in Germany as an unaccompanied minor at the peak of the migrant crisis in 2015, becoming one of the country’s 1.6m registered asylum seekers.

He was charged with terrorism. Over the internet he had ordered electronic and chemical materials used in bomb making…

Want to read more, pay for it!
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by ed » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:08 pm

I think that it is problematic to frame this argument in terms of right and wrong, that is, that the west is "right" because we don't throw gays off of buildings or kill people who make fun of Mohammad.

There really is not right or wrong, there are only societies that have the will to make their own values survive.

I am becoming a bit Nyarlian on this one I think. I am not sure that we can survive without killing. And I am not sure who the object of such killing ought to be. But I see war, not discussion. Islamists don't discuss.
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Re: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:09 pm

You always have the option of submitting to the will of Allah.
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