About those GM layoffs

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Anaxagoras
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About those GM layoffs

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:57 am

“Inhumane”: a laid-off GM worker in Ohio responds to massive job cuts
GM’s decision sparked a backlash from lawmakers in Canada and the United States. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) called it “corporate greed at its worst,” pointing out that GM received millions in corporate tax cuts but failed to use the money to invest in its workers. Instead, the company recently announced plans to build its new Chevy Blazer in Mexico — a decision that frustrated US labor unions that want those jobs to go to American workers.

Trump was also reportedly furious about the decision. GM produces electric cars, and buyers in the US can get a federal tax break for purchasing one. So Trump threatened to cut those subsidies for GM vehicles (which he can’t do without Congress).

As lawmakers and company executives continue to point fingers and try to deflect the blame, I reached out to Nanette Senters, a 55-year-old woman who has spent the past two decades working at GM’s Lordstown plant in Warren, Ohio, where the Chevy Cruze is made.

Senters sobbed quietly on the phone as she told me how distressing the news has been for her and thousands of her co-workers who will lose their jobs. She is single but helps support her 84-year-old mother. She was also angry, she told me — at GM, at Trump, and at all the American companies outsourcing jobs abroad.
(Interview follows)

Who to blame? I will just point out one aspect of this that economists and the business community warned about: Steel and Aluminum tariffs might be good for the domestic steel industry, but they aren't good for other manufacturing industries like the automobile industries because they raise their materials costs. That's not the only factor here of course, but it's part of it.
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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:21 am

It's my fault for buying Honda CRV.

It could just be a union negotiation tactic. But really who the fuck wants a Chevy Cruise?

Image

Far fewer. That's who.

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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by ed » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:38 am

Ultimately it the the Board of Directors at GM. Period. Anything this fraught would need Board approval. It could not have happened, though, without the CEO signing on. That said, corporations move glacially. I would make a money bet that this move was on the table back in Obama's time.

Don't know on whose watch GM received federal $ but whoever it was is incompetent for not having a nationalistic quid pro quo.

Talking about tariffs is sorta hard when you don't know what the impact is on consumer price. Do you know? I sure as hell don't.

The Wiki piece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Chin ... _trade_war
Is interesting. I did not realize how onerous the Chinese import policies were. When do you say "enough"? And in so saying, is one prepared for a reaction? And is the reaction worth it?

Here are the costs involed in building a car
Image
and ...
Raw materials contribute about 47% to the cost of a vehicle. On average, an automobile is 47% steel, 8% iron, 8% plastic, 7% aluminum, and 3% glass. Other materials account for the remaining 27%.
https://marketrealist.com/2015/02/raw-m ... o-industry

So iron and steel and aluminum make up 62% of the 47% that materials contribute. That is to say that 29% of the cost of a car are the things subject to tariffs. So A 25% increase (say) in those costs would result in a 8% increase in the cost to make a car. Those numbers right? Is that a problem? Could it be covered somewhat by lowered dealer and manufacturer profits? A credit from the feds? A credit of some sort from the states that gain by not having their plants moved out? Probably.

But we hate Trump so the whole thing is his fault. Barry would have helped GM move, put on his overalls and loaded the moving trucks and said how this is part of the fundamental change to the US that he was talking about.
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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:16 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:21 am
It's my fault for buying Honda CRV.

It could just be a union negotiation tactic. But really who the fuck wants a Chevy Cruise?

Image

Far fewer. That's who.
I see the trend but there's still another month to go in 2018 so comparing this year to previous years may not be a fair comparison. I agree that falling demand for this model is part of the problem and it isn't only tariffs.

It seems American car companies (following American consumers) are abandoning sedans and other kinds of cars for pickup trucks and SUVs.
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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by WildCat » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:52 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:57 am
Who to blame? I will just point out one aspect of this that economists and the business community warned about: Steel and Aluminum tariffs might be good for the domestic steel industry, but they aren't good for other manufacturing industries like the automobile industries because they raise their materials costs. That's not the only factor here of course, but it's part of it.
And somehow these tariffs only affect GM's US production? And somehow also their Canadian plants?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by WildCat » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:56 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:38 am
Here are the costs involed in building a car
Image
and ...
Raw materials contribute about 47% to the cost of a vehicle. On average, an automobile is 47% steel, 8% iron, 8% plastic, 7% aluminum, and 3% glass. Other materials account for the remaining 27%.
https://marketrealist.com/2015/02/raw-m ... o-industry

So iron and steel and aluminum make up 62% of the 47% that materials contribute.
Current steel prices are $864/metric ton in the USA. Are there 6 tons of steel in a $20,000 car?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:04 pm

What, you think they buy steel by the ton?
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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:06 pm

Metric tons? :freedom:
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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by WildCat » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:17 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:04 pm
What, you think they buy steel by the ton?
By the trainload.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:18 pm


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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Doctor X » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:39 pm

WildCat wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:17 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:04 pm
What, you think they buy steel by the ton?
By the trainload.
There is the problem. They bought it by the boatload which caused the market to sink.

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Re: About those GM layoffs

Post by Skeeve » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:32 pm

Here is a pdf with steel price over time (starting on page 4).
It looks like the price has been higher (2008) than it seems to be now.

http://steelbenchmarker.com/files/history.pdf

Interesting IMHO, YMMV...
Then Skank Of America could start in...