US Juries

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 33438
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 460 times
Been thanked: 788 times

US Juries

Post by ed » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:10 am

Race, as a matter of constitutional principle, cannot factor into the selection of jurors for criminal trials. But in the American justice system, anyone with a bit of common sense and a view from the back of the courtroom knows the colorblind ideal isn’t true in practice.

Racial bias largely seeps in through what’s called “peremptory” challenges: the ability of a prosecutor — and then a defense attorney — to block a certain number of potential jurors without needing to give the court any reason for the exclusion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/opin ... e=Homepage

RACISM!!!!!! natch.

Short version is that prosecutors strike black folks becasue they are less likely to convict, defense the opposite. YAWN

Seems that the conflict is ok.

One comment was interesting
Adam
CTDec. 4
@Sequel The point of the jury system has never been to get the correct answer. It was implemented to limit the power of the government to use the criminal justice system as a tool of tyranny. Large swathes of the U.S. Constitution and state constitutions were written with the threat of tyranny at the top of mind. We struggle with this reality when discussing the Constitution today.
I was on a jury once, I came away impressed. I would change nothing.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

shuize
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:32 am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: US Juries

Post by shuize » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:39 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:10 am
Race, as a matter of constitutional principle, cannot factor into the selection of jurors for criminal trials. But in the American justice system, anyone with a bit of common sense and a view from the back of the courtroom knows the colorblind ideal isn’t true in practice.

Racial bias largely seeps in through what’s called “peremptory” challenges: the ability of a prosecutor — and then a defense attorney — to block a certain number of potential jurors without needing to give the court any reason for the exclusion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/opin ... e=Homepage

RACISM!!!!!! natch.

Short version is that prosecutors strike black folks becasue they are less likely to convict, defense the opposite. YAWN

Seems that the conflict is ok.

One comment was interesting
Adam
CTDec. 4
@Sequel The point of the jury system has never been to get the correct answer. It was implemented to limit the power of the government to use the criminal justice system as a tool of tyranny. Large swathes of the U.S. Constitution and state constitutions were written with the threat of tyranny at the top of mind. We struggle with this reality when discussing the Constitution today.
I was on a jury once, I came away impressed. I would change nothing.
I like the peremptory challenge system. But they've been screwing around with it since Batson v. Kentucky. Batson's bar on race-based peremptory challenges sounds nice in theory. But I've always been a bit skeptical about how it actually worked in practice. No prosecutor (or defense attorney now that Batson has been expanded to apply to both sides) is stupid enough to say they are removing a juror based on race. So as long as they are not stupid about how they do it, like challeging consecutive minority jurors, they can likely get away with it. If asked to explain the reason for their challenges (i.e. a Batson objection), they can use any reason other than race (or sex after J.E.B. v. Alabama).

Rather than trying to determine intent behind the challenge under the Batson approach, it would be easier just to reduce the number of peremptory challenges available.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33438
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 460 times
Been thanked: 788 times

Re: US Juries

Post by ed » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:38 pm

or mandate a 50:50 split black:white
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 22000
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1428 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: US Juries

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:13 am

Do Asian people count as white or black under that system? ;)
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 14102
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: US Juries

Post by WildCat » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:55 pm

And if half of all juries have to be blacks then blacks are going to be called to jury duty a lot!
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33438
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 460 times
Been thanked: 788 times

Re: US Juries

Post by ed » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:06 pm

We could import non-citizen Somalians.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!