Star Trek: Discovery

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Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:22 pm

I can't believe no one started a thread on this show

Star Trek: Discovery got off to a bad start. It seemed like someone took the JJ Abrams version of Trek and then added a double helping of angst on top. The new Klingons look silly and their style of speech is best described as 'irritating'. Most of the characters are interchangable. The whole concept of the "spore drive" is goofy even by Star Trek standards. That being said, the new "Mirror Universe" plot arc is an improvement at least. It still seems to have far too much angstiness for Trek but at least its interesting. It's letting some of the characters do things besides stand around and look grim. Last nights episode even had a plot twist that took me by surprise.

Spoiler:
Turns out Captain Lorca was from the Mirror Universe all along. And most of his actions have been part of a plan to get back.


A lot has been said on how The Orville seems to capture the spirit of Star Trek better than Discovery. And in the first season as a whole, I agree. But I think the next season of both shows will be the more interesting battle. If Discovery takes this season to "Grow The Beard" like what happened to TNG and The Orville can keep up the quality it had this season, 2018/2019 could be a very interesting year for Star Trek fans
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby gnome » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:24 pm

Yes--the ability of a Star Trek show to become worthwhile after a bad start has been most of what keeps me watching. Arguably that has happened to every series since TOS. (which did the opposite, it jumped the shark bad on third season -- Thanks Obama Fred Freiberger!!)

The slow improvement (and that Mirror Universe stories have been my favorite) is what has kept me from dismissing the show already. But I'm not entirely satisfied yet.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:33 pm

Yeah, the second half of this season it hasn't quite grown the beard, but it's got some serious five o'clock shadow at least. That's something anyway.

When they get to the next season, I can live with their goofy ass Klingons and a lot of my other complaints as long as the writing ceases to be "Star Trek if it were written in the form of LiveJournal posts of a goth Teenager from 2003". They need to lose the constant grimdark angst. That's my real beef with the show. And let some of the other characters other than Burnham have the spotlight for a change. They did a little of that in the second half of this season. They need to continue.

Also (and this is so minor I am not going to bother with spoiler tags) did you notice something. In the original series "Mirror Mirror" episode, Spock had a goatee. In last week's episode, they ran into the mirror universe version of Sarek...who also had a goatee. Goatees must be the in thing for Vulcans in the mirror universe.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Grammatron » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:53 pm

I am surprised by how much I love The Orville. Every time I am ready to dismiss it as an overly sarcastic joke machine it hits back with a serious philosophical paradox.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:58 pm

Grammatron wrote:I am surprised by how much I love The Orville. Every time I am ready to dismiss it as an overly sarcastic joke machine it hits back with a serious philosophical paradox.


I call The Orville the first "Bait & Switch" that I ever enjoyed having pulled on me. The ads for it made it look like a full on parody. And the first couple of episodes really were that. Then about the third episode it switched over to "full on '90s Trek with a little more humor". And it really, really worked. The fact that the cast members make the occasional dick joke, get drunk, suffer from petty jealousies, etc actually makes the characters seem more human than the perfect supermen that comprised the crews of TNG, DS9, et al.

I really like it and can't wait for season 2.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby gnome » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:46 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Yeah, the second half of this season it hasn't quite grown the beard, but it's got some serious five o'clock shadow at least. That's something anyway.

When they get to the next season, I can live with their goofy ass Klingons and a lot of my other complaints as long as the writing ceases to be "Star Trek if it were written in the form of LiveJournal posts of a goth Teenager from 2003". They need to lose the constant grimdark angst. That's my real beef with the show. And let some of the other characters other than Burnham have the spotlight for a change. They did a little of that in the second half of this season. They need to continue.

Also (and this is so minor I am not going to bother with spoiler tags) did you notice something. In the original series "Mirror Mirror" episode, Spock had a goatee. In last week's episode, they ran into the mirror universe version of Sarek...who also had a goatee. Goatees must be the in thing for Vulcans in the mirror universe.


Or at least in Spock's family. I hope Mirror Burnham has a beard.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:49 pm

gnome wrote: I hope Mirror Burnham has a beard.


That would shoot it straight to "my favorite show ever"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:08 am

I wrote this in another thread but yeah, I think this week's plot development has finally made it more interesting.

I didn't know about The Orville. I've been watching Discovery on Netflix but I don't think they have The Orville.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:08 pm

The Orville broadcasts on Fox and is also on Hulu. So if you don’t have Hulu or Hulu I’m Japan doesn’t have it....get a ‘Murrican proxy server just to watch it
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:40 am

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:19 am

Did anyone watch the latest couple of episodes yet?

Spoiler:
Holy shit. Having the captain turn out to be the villain of the piece and then killing him off was REALLY unexpected. At least I didn't expect it. It might not be the most classically Trekkian of moves but I like it. I think that may have won me over to the show despite its flaws.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby gnome » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:52 am

Can they please turn the lights up now?

It grows on me by the week. I'll wind up forgiving the Klingon makeup, though I'll never agree it was a good move.

Two problems still remain: Not really enough showing the crew at quiet times yet. Everything poorly lit, like they're ashamed of their sets and CGI.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:54 am

Yeah, yet another Klingon makeover was...unnecessary at best. At least give them some damned hair and we can pretend that they are the old Klingons, just a better made up version.

But I do have to say, last weeks episode was the one that won me over. I really liked it.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:36 am

Spoiler:
So is the evil Phillipa going to join the Federation or something? What do they do with her now?
Is she responsible for crimes committed in an alternate universe? Maybe they need her to fight the Klingons, since they are winning or have won the war. :notsure:


I guess there are two remaining episodes in season 1?
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby gnome » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:40 am

Spoiler:
They've made it clear in past episodes that Mirror characters aren't inherently evil--it's learned behavior. Given the loyalty shown by Michael, I think she's going to find herself influenced by Federation values, even as she gives ruthless tactical advice.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:48 am

Spoiler:
From the trailer for next weeks episode, it looks like giving them tactical advice to fight the Klingons is EXACTLY what she is going to do


And yes, two more episodes for season 1
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Grammatron » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:51 am

Should I watch Discovery or not? I'm getting mixed signals.
pillory wrote:jokes aren't funny....seriously thinking......

seriously thinking might be funny....but it's not joke

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby gnome » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:32 am

How forgiving are you of mixed-quality Trek with the visuals kind of messed up? That is the real answer.

It has worthwhile content, but not good for a purist or nostalgist. And the quality of the writing and storyline still needs work.

I'm sticking with it, it has not quite lost me yet, but it's not doing terribly well with me either.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Nyarlathotep » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:47 pm

Grammatron wrote:Should I watch Discovery or not? I'm getting mixed signals.


If you had asked early in the season, I would say "no".

Now I would say "maybe".

The early episodes are really, really bad. It doesn't really start to get good until episode 10 or so. But there is context in those previous crappy episodes. And even then by good I mean "Acceptably good", good enough to give me some hope for season 2, not "Awesomely good" if that makes any sense. So if that isn't offputting, then watch. If it is, don't.
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Postby Grammatron » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:23 pm

gnome wrote:How forgiving are you of mixed-quality Trek with the visuals kind of messed up? That is the real answer.

It has worthwhile content, but not good for a purist or nostalgist. And the quality of the writing and storyline still needs work.

I'm sticking with it, it has not quite lost me yet, but it's not doing terribly well with me either.


I watched Voyager through but could not do so with Enterprise. Does that help in answering the question?

PS: Tangentially, I do love The Orville because the story telling is so damn good.
pillory wrote:jokes aren't funny....seriously thinking......

seriously thinking might be funny....but it's not joke


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