Pseudo private bank to run American economy says Treasury De

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Post by gnome » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What's so funny?

It's unlikely to happen again, but it worked OK for a long time.

It wasn't until cornering gold became possible that it was a problem. Then they brought in silver.

Initially, the Fed did not abrogate the gold/silver standard, they just made runs on the treasury impossible by decentralization.
As soon as I learned how changes in the money supply affect the economy, I thought that tying it to the availability of a precious metal was ludicrous. At least, once the economy is "macro" enough to need a monetary policy.
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Post by Geni » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:42 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Geni wrote:Rememeber profit shouldbe private. Risk nationalised.
Trouble with that is, there's no accountability for screwing up, although in recent years some executives have gone to jail. If you want to call the country clubs they go to "jail".
The other trouble is the cost to the public purse. However that is only from the POV of most of the population. From the POV of bankers and the like it is an ideal aranagement.

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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:32 am

gnome wrote:As soon as I learned how changes in the money supply affect the economy, I thought that tying it to the availability of a precious metal was ludicrous. At least, once the economy is "macro" enough to need a monetary policy.
True. OTOH, there's no reason gold can't be part of the mix, as long as whoever regulates the currency has a huge hoard of it.

That's not not quite the classical US gold standard where gold does not have a price as such, because the dollar is defined as being a certain amount of gold. That is with paper dollars being a promise to pay and silver dollars being tokens, though intrinsically worth about a dollar if the market isn't too skittish.

Bimetallism (gold/silver) allows more flexibility, and promissory notes backed by "full faith and credit" even more so. All three coexisted until 1933. And Federal Reserve Notes didn't become the only new circulating current until 1964.

Individuals were not allowed to trade gold from 1933 to 1975. Only since then has there been anything approaching a free market in gold in the USA.

As it happens, the Fed does have a huge hoard of gold. Enough to prevent someone else from cornering. So although the dollar is not defined in terms of gold (or silver) at all any more, it provides a cushion of stored wealth for the currency.

So being in favor of more of a "gold standard" is not identical to Ron Paul craziness on the subject, even if it isn't necessarily a good idea under particular conditions.
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Post by JEROME DA GNOME » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:05 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
JEROME DA GNOME wrote:You are not contending that the Federal Reserve Dollar has been stable, are you?
Stable does not mean perfectly unchanging, it means it holds its value well enough to do long-term business.

Or should I ask compared to what?

Yet it has not held value since 1913, it has consistently lost approximately 3% of value each year.
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Post by JEROME DA GNOME » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:06 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: As it happens, the Fed does have a huge hoard of gold. Enough to prevent someone else from cornering. So although the dollar is not defined in terms of gold (or silver) at all any more, it provides a cushion of stored wealth for the currency.

Can this be evidenced?
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious.

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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:14 am

JEROME DA GNOME wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote: As it happens, the Fed does have a huge hoard of gold. Enough to prevent someone else from cornering. So although the dollar is not defined in terms of gold (or silver) at all any more, it provides a cushion of stored wealth for the currency.

Can this be evidenced?
Unless they are lying, it's in the basement of the Federal Reserve Bank in New York.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/index.html
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:19 am

JEROME DA GNOME wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
JEROME DA GNOME wrote:You are not contending that the Federal Reserve Dollar has been stable, are you?
Stable does not mean perfectly unchanging, it means it holds its value well enough to do long-term business.

Or should I ask compared to what?

Yet it has not held value since 1913, it has consistently lost approximately 3% of value each year.
No so bad since 1982 or so.

Even before that, it held its value well enough, etc.

And during the Great Depression there was deflation and a dollar went a long way. That is if you had one.
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Post by Geni » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:34 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Bimetallism (gold/silver) allows more flexibility, and promissory notes backed by "full faith and credit" even more so. All three coexisted until 1933. And Federal Reserve Notes didn't become the only new circulating current until 1964.
Problem is of the four commonly traded precious metals both silver and palladium have experenced bubbles.

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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:11 am

Geni wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote: Bimetallism (gold/silver) allows more flexibility, and promissory notes backed by "full faith and credit" even more so. All three coexisted until 1933. And Federal Reserve Notes didn't become the only new circulating current until 1964.
Problem is of the four commonly traded precious metals both silver and palladium have experenced bubbles.
IIRC, that was the problem in 1964 and not just general inflation.
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:12 am

BTW, even a pure metallic currency can be subjected to debasement by the government.

It was so over a long period in the Roman Empire.
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Why the Paulson Plan is DOA

Post by Skeeve » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:49 pm

Why the Paulson Plan is DOA
Let’s see. In the middle of perhaps the greatest financial upheaval since the Great Depression, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson is proposing a change in financial regulations which basically amounts to a big wink to Wall Street. His plan will go nowhere, both for political and practical reasons.
...
For political reasons, nothing is going to happen until after the presidential election. The Democrats in Congress have no reason to sign onto the Paulson plan. But the next president—whoever it may be—should put financial transparency at the top of the regulatory agenda.
Hot air until after election day.
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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by WildCat » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:15 am

jj wrote:
WildCat wrote:Yeah, you don't want the different agencies to work together.

Sure you do, of course they should all work together. To hell with those checks and balances. Put 'em all under Brownie! Who cares if the levys break!?
Hmmm, somebody doesn't know sarcasm when he sees it.
jj wrote:
WildCat wrote:Besides, you may even then be able to cut some redundancy and fire unnecessary workers, and this cannot be allowed to happen in the Dem's world.
You are an insane whack-job.
I can prove my statement with 2 words: Cook County.

I win!

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Post by Doctor X » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:21 am

Indeed.

But do you have your Personal Park Ranger?

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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by En folkefiende » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:28 am

WildCat wrote:
jj wrote:
WildCat wrote:Yeah, you don't want the different agencies to work together.

Sure you do, of course they should all work together. To hell with those checks and balances. Put 'em all under Brownie! Who cares if the levys break!?
Hmmm, somebody doesn't know sarcasm when he sees it.
So, which one of us didn't understand the sarcasm, now?
jj wrote:
WildCat wrote:Besides, you may even then be able to cut some redundancy and fire unnecessary workers, and this cannot be allowed to happen in the Dem's world.
You are an insane whack-job.
I can prove my statement with 2 words: Cook County.

I win!
Shrug. One word for you: "W" Well, not even a word. Just as bad as Cook County, only different.

You're still an insane whack-job.
Formerly jj, the enemy of the people, aka the bullies who rant and lie here.

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Post by En folkefiende » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:29 am

Doctor X wrote:Indeed.

But do you have your Personal Park Ranger?

--J.D.
Really, now, who claims they have their own park ranger? Do you have some evidence that anyone claims that? Or are you just engaging in more irresponsible defamation?
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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by WildCat » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:21 am

jj wrote:You're still an insane whack-job.
Now that you've resorted to ad-homs, my crushing victory is complete. (blows smoke off typing fingers)

:lol:

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N.Y. insurance regulator concerned about Treasury plan...

Post by Skeeve » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:04 pm

N.Y. insurance regulator concerned about Treasury plan's optional element
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- New York State Insurance Commissioner Eric Dinallo called U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's plan to overhaul the U.S. financial regulatory structure "thoughtful," although he questioned the idea of optional regulation and asserted that state regulators had been successful with the monoline insurers.
Thoughtful, but does it pass the snifff test?
Last edited by Skeeve on Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by En folkefiende » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:11 pm

WildCat wrote:
jj wrote:You're still an insane whack-job.
Now that you've resorted to ad-homs, my crushing victory is complete. (blows smoke off typing fingers)

:lol:
You're a legend in your own mind. Now, you sniveling little right-wing nutter, show me where I'd pay a dhimmi to anyone. You accused me of that, you know, and you don't get to collect your dhimmi of untruth any more than anyone else gets to pay one.

Too bad for you you decided to just up and lie about your moral and ethical superiors.
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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by WildCat » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:28 pm

jj wrote:
WildCat wrote:
jj wrote:You're still an insane whack-job.
Now that you've resorted to ad-homs, my crushing victory is complete. (blows smoke off typing fingers)

:lol:
You're a legend in your own mind. Now, you sniveling little right-wing nutter, show me where I'd pay a dhimmi to anyone. You accused me of that, you know, and you don't get to collect your dhimmi of untruth any more than anyone else gets to pay one.

Too bad for you you decided to just up and lie about your moral and ethical superiors.
There's some golden sig material there! Some mighty thin skin you have their jj...

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Re: A NEW Dept...

Post by En folkefiende » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:32 pm

WildCat wrote:There's some golden sig material there! Some mighty thin skin you have their jj...
I wouldn't go stealing work if I were you.

Now, you've claimed that I (who you think is a liberal) willingly pay dhimmi to islamic nutcases.

I'm telling you to prove it or shut your lying piehole, quack.

And yeah, I'm sure that you're distressed that somebody can react in as antagonistic a fashion as you can. Sorry, I'm taking the cues for how to deal with you from how you deal with others, so if you think I have a thin skin go look in the mirror.

'Nuff said? You want to get treated better, act better.
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