Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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corplinx
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Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by corplinx » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Clickbait of course.

I was actually hearing good buzz about an Arizona candidate and was liking the cut of his jib.
In Payson, which is about 93 percent white, Garcia pitched greater teacher pay and full investment in public schools, building on the demands of a teachers strike that rocked the state in April. He told his 50-person audience that education would be the reason Arizona turns blue this year, but he also introduced other parts of his platform: an in-state public option as a stepping stone to universal health care; free college;
Sign me up. The GOP is lousy at funding schools, healthcare, etc.
and abolishing U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Sigh. This shit again.

This dude may win, but it will be despite that position not because of why it. Why are Democrats embracing Anarchy policies?

https://theintercept.com/2018/07/29/dav ... e-arizona/

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Giz » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:12 pm

They are trying to recapture the buzz and excitement that won Obama elections, which Hillary failed to generate (not that she should have had to, it being Her Turn. Peasants!)

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm

Wait a minute. It just dawned on me.

Abolishing customs too? Not just immigration enforcement?

So the "left" is taking a position previously associated with the looniest Randroids?
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by shuize » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:21 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm

So the "left" is taking a position previously associated with the looniest Randroids?

... Abolishing customs too? Not just immigration enforcement? ...

The likely answer is they don't know what customs enforcement actually involves so it gets lumped in with immigration. But I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they read "customs" as "culture" and don't you know enforcing "patriarchal culture" and "cultural appropriation" is, like, bad and stuff, man?

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Giz » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:41 pm

shuize wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:21 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm

So the "left" is taking a position previously associated with the looniest Randroids?

... Abolishing customs too? Not just immigration enforcement? ...

The likely answer is they don't know what customs enforcement actually involves so it gets lumped in with immigration. But I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they read "customs" as "culture" and don't you know enforcing "patriarchal culture" and "cultural appropriation" is, like, bad and stuff, man?
Surely they can’t think that ICE is in charge of making sure that people pass port to the right?

That’s the job of the port authority.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Witness » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:06 am

shuize wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:21 pm
The likely answer is they don't know what customs enforcement actually involves so it gets lumped in with immigration. But I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that they read "customs" as "culture" and don't you know enforcing "patriarchal culture" and "cultural appropriation" is, like, bad and stuff, man?
Made me snigger. :mrgreen:

P. –S. I'm astounded how this Corplinxian thread has an Alhazreddian title! :P

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:12 am

corplinx wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:34 pm
Sign me up. The GOP is lousy at funding schools, healthcare, etc.
Is there a correlation between spending and results? Chicago now spends over $16,000 per student per year and the schools are horrific. California spends boatloads of money and they are rapidly becoming the worst state for education, ranked 46th last I checked.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:32 am

The correlation between spending and results (Chicago style) can be clearly discerned once one understands the difference between results and stated positions. 8)
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by corplinx » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 am

In Mississippi they criminally underfund the schools and they get horrible results.

Funded schools have less excuses so you can focus on other problems, but it's not a goddamn excuse to not fund them in the first place.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:36 am

corplinx wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 am
In Mississippi they criminally underfund the schools and they get horrible results.

Funded schools have less excuses so you can focus on other problems, but it's not a goddamn excuse to not fund them in the first place.
What isn't criminally underfunded in Mississippi?

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:36 am

corplinx wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 am
In Mississippi they criminally underfund the schools and they get horrible results.

Funded schools have less excuses so you can focus on other problems, but it's not a goddamn excuse to not fund them in the first place.
Name the dollar amount per student per year that is adequate.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:38 am

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:36 am
corplinx wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 am
In Mississippi they criminally underfund the schools and they get horrible results.

Funded schools have less excuses so you can focus on other problems, but it's not a goddamn excuse to not fund them in the first place.
What isn't criminally underfunded in Mississippi?
All I know is that the highway rest stops in Mississippi are fantastic. Far better than we have in Illinois.

Arkansas, OTOH, holy crap literally an outhouse.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:46 am

I don't know what the one ideal amount might be, but the amount spent per pupil in Chicago would buy a decent education at a not too fancy private school.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:22 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm
Wait a minute. It just dawned on me.

Abolishing customs too? Not just immigration enforcement?

So the "left" is taking a position previously associated with the looniest Randroids?
I don't think that's the actual position, no. But it will be easy to paint it as an extreme position.

What they actually want is some sort of reshuffling of the various functions of the DHS.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ns/564752/

And when put on the spot, suddenly they won't vote for it:

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/17568170/ ... n-congress

Even the bill's own sponsors say they will vote against it. The Congressional Hispanic Caucus is also against it. Which tells you that this is pandering to activists, not something they would actually do if in power. At most, they might reshuffle DHS and in effect break up ICE and put its functions under different agencies. But somebody will still be responsible for deporting illegals.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:48 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:22 am
But somebody will still be responsible for deporting illegals.
Name one single Democrat who supports deporting illegals, and enforcing immigration laws in general.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:29 pm

WildCat wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:48 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:22 am
But somebody will still be responsible for deporting illegals.
Name one single Democrat who supports deporting illegals, and enforcing immigration laws in general.
I can't think of any who would say it now, but they sure were deporting illegals back in the Obama administration.

OK, not enough, you say. But still.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:29 pm
WildCat wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:48 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:22 am
But somebody will still be responsible for deporting illegals.
Name one single Democrat who supports deporting illegals, and enforcing immigration laws in general.
I can't think of any who would say it now, but they sure were deporting illegals back in the Obama administration.

OK, not enough, you say. But still.
Joe Manchin.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:42 pm

Had to look him up.

I keep forgetting that West Virginia still has Democrats. :BigGrin3:
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:46 am
I don't know what the one ideal amount might be, but the amount spent per pupil in Chicago would buy a decent education at a not too fancy private school.
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas. Being engaged with students enough so that a child can be removed from a sexually abusive home doesn't translate well to proficiency testing. Neither does the win of just keeping a kid whose parents DGAF interested enough to even get on the bus and come to school at all.

Directly comparing what is a hybrid social service / education institution with a purely educational institution that has control over pupil choice is madness. One effect of slashing social spending is that the burden of dealing with those problems has fallen squarely on the public schools and in too many cases on individual teachers spending their own money because they are the ones that have to deal with this.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:29 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:29 pm
I can't think of any who would say it now, but they sure were deporting illegals back in the Obama administration.
No, they weren't and that's the lie that keeps going around the world. Obama started calling turnbacks at the border "deportations" to make it appear he was doing something when in reality anyone who made it past the border area was safe from deportation under Obama. No other administration counted border turnbacks as a deportation.
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