## Drug prices

Ever had it before? Well you got it again.
Pyrrho
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Location: Division 6

### Drug prices

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
sparks
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Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Drug prices

Fuck. Just fuck.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
shemp
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

Hey I've got a coupon for $5 off! Anyone need it? "It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek "what dicking deep shit i produce" -- pillory Freedom of choice Is what you got Freedom from choice Is what you want People are shitting themselves to death Crap so much they fail to take a breath But even when their kids are starvin' They thought Trump would throw them Charmin. Anaxagoras Posts: 29250 Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan ### Re: Drug prices It really is nuts. It really infuriates me. They are literally taking advantage of sick people. The government is legally prohibited from negotiating drug prices. The United States is the only country in the world that does this, apparently. So a drug that costs$8/month in Australia costs $2000 in . But your insurance will pay for it, so why do you care, right? Because that's what drives up everyone's insurance premiums including your own. On my way to work this morning I was listening to a podcast about another case. This Drug Could End H.I.V. Why Hasn’t It? A solution to the AIDS epidemic may be at hand. But not everyone who needs it has access to it. June 5, 2019 Truvada, a drug manufactured by Gilead Sciences, is taken once daily to prevent infection with H.I.V. It currently costs about$20,000 annually.
Could it wipe out the disease like small pox? Maybe not entirely, but it could, if everyone who was "at risk" for HIV took it, probably cut down on new infections by about 90%. But, it's more important for the company that makes the drug to maximize their profits than to wipe out a deadly disease, so here we are. It'll supposedly be coming off patent in 2020 but the company is making a new, slightly different version of the drug which they claim causes fewer side effects, so it's a little unclear whether cheap generic versions of the old drug will still be the drug of choice after it comes off of patent.

Essentially, Americans pay huge markups for drugs that are available to people in other countries for a bargain.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Anaxagoras
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Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Drug prices

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:55 am Or is it Americans (or their insurance companies) paying the true cost, as distinct from government subsidy?
No. A drug that was being sold for $40 in 2000 is now almost 1000 times more expensive. True cost has nothing to do with it. A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare Rob Lister Posts: 23527 Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm Title: Incipient toppler Location: Swimming in Lake Ed ### Re: Drug prices What's not clear from the tweet is that the DOJ is going after them. The pharmaceutical company responsible for one of the largest drug price increases in US history "knowingly paid illegal kickbacks" as part of an elaborate scheme to make millions and stick the American taxpayer with the bill, the US Department of Justice said Wednesday in a lawsuit filed against Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals. In its complaint, the government demanded a jury trial that would put front and center the actions of the company at the heart of a 97,000% drug price hike. The price of Mallinckrodt's anti-inflammatory drug Acthar -- best known for treating babies with a debilitating seizure disorder -- has gone from$40 a vial in 2000 to nearly $39,000 today. The complaint was filed in the US District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania by US Attorney William McSwain. Mallinckrodt could face fines of nearly$240 million if found liable.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/health/m ... index.html

They've made about $2 billion from this so that$250 million is 1/8 their profit.

Short Story: they set up a fund wherein you could get the medication for free if you were uninsured. In turn, they only charged Medicare the 40K price.

On the other hand, this drug is the only thing on the market that works BUT it is a dangerous drug and there are likely hundreds of pending lawsuits.
Spoiler:

https://citronresearch.com/fda-faers-da ... se-events/
They have to raise the price to cover the costs!

That will be their argument, anyway.

On the gripping hand, the huge increase in deaths appears to be them lobbying doctors to provide the drug for off-label uses.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Anaxagoras
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Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Drug prices

I'd say that's not entirely true. Even with private insurance companies, the government is involved. Often they have no choice but to put up with it. Then instead of saving money on the cost side of the equation, they just have to raise prices (premiums) for everyone to cover the increased cost. This is why inflation is much higher in the health care sector than in, say, consumer goods.

As for your second question, it's the pharmaceutical industry. They lobby congress, they donate generously to their reelection campaigns. Maybe they even hire family members of congress people. I'm sure you know all about how political influence works.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Anaxagoras
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Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Drug prices

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:39 am So a political corruption story more than anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_ ... zation_Act
The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act,[1] also called the Medicare Modernization Act or MMA, is a federal law of the United States, enacted in 2003.[2] It produced the largest overhaul of Medicare in the public health program's 38-year history.

The MMA was signed by President George W. Bush on December 8, 2003, after passing in Congress by a close margin.[3]

The MMA's most touted feature is the introduction of an entitlement benefit for prescription drugs, through tax breaks and subsidies.

In the years since Medicare's creation in 1965, the role of prescription drugs in patient care has significantly increased. As new and expensive drugs have come into use, patients, particularly senior citizens at whom Medicare was targeted, have found prescriptions harder to afford. The MMA was designed to address this problem.

The benefit is funded in a complex way, reflecting diverse priorities of lobbyists and constituencies.

It provides a subsidy for large employers to discourage them from eliminating private prescription coverage to retired workers (a key AARP goal);
It prohibits the federal government from negotiating discounts with drug companies;
It prevents the government from establishing a formulary, but does not prevent private providers such as HMOs from doing so.
According to the New York Times December 17, 2004 editorial W.J."Billy" Tauzin, the Louisiana Republican who chaired the Energy and Commerce Committee from 2001 until February 4, 2004 was one of the chief architects of the new Medicare law.[6][7] In 2004 Tauzin was appointed as chief lobbyist for the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the trade association and lobby group for the drug industry with a "rumored salary of $2 million a year,"[6] drawing criticism from Public Citizen, the consumer advocacy group. They claimed that Tauzin "may have been negotiating for the lobbying job while writing the Medicare legislation."[7][8] Tauzin was responsible for including a provision that prohibited Medicare from negotiating prices with drug companies.[9] There you have it. A congressman who chaired a key committee and "was one of the chief architects" of the law, retired and was then hired as a lobbyist by the pharmaceutical industry for$2 million/year (rumored). Who knows, really. Whether you call it "corruption" or just "money influences politics," the result is the same.

The fact that the federal government is prohibited by the law from negotiating discounts with drug companies makes no sense from the government's (taxpayers') perspective. It only makes sense if you are a pharmaceutical company.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Doctor X
Posts: 73832
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### Re: Drug prices

Anaxagoras wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:29 amThe government is legally prohibited from negotiating drug prices.
Thanks Obama.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
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Paulie Cicero
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### Re: Drug prices

Pyrrho wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:59 pm
Fuck you, pay me!
Boss Paul
Posts: 323
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Title: Boss
Location: Florida Corrections

### Re: Drug prices

Now get to work.
Get the wax outta your ears!

You call the Captain "Captain!"

And you call the rest of us "Boss," you hear?!
Paulie Cicero
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:52 am

### Re: Drug prices

I got a crew what does that.
Boss Paul
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:30 am
Title: Boss
Location: Florida Corrections

### Re: Drug prices

Got their mind right?
Get the wax outta your ears!

You call the Captain "Captain!"

And you call the rest of us "Boss," you hear?!
Paulie Cicero
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:52 am

### Re: Drug prices

Them that doesn't, oh you won't see them no more.
Morrie
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:15 pm
Title: Hair Specialist
Location: "Probably with One of His Girls . . . Who Gives a Fuck?"

### Re: Drug prices

They got cannoli?
Fuck 'em in the ear! Fuck 'em in the other ear!
Jimmy the Gent
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:48 pm
Title: Goodfella

### Re: Drug prices

They got everything there! Over on the boulevard.
You trying to be a wiseguy with me?
Paulie Cicero
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:52 am

### Re: Drug prices

Cannoli? A million bulls are watching us and you guys are sucking down espresso and cannoli over on the boulevard. You guys gotta start eating sangwiches. Like I told Vinnie.
Henry
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:58 pm

### Re: Drug prices

No no Paulie, Clemenza took the cannoli. Used to get real good cannoli at the Bamboo Lounge, hey!
Now I gotta live the rest of my life like a schnook.
Teddy Bass
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:52 am
Title: Mr. Black Magic Himself

### Re: Drug prices

If I cared, Gal. If I fucking cared. If I gave a solitary fuck about cannoli.
If I cared, Gal. If I fucking cared. If I gave a solitary fuck about. . . .
Pyrrho
Posts: 31278
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Drug prices

So yeah my benefits requires that prescriptions be filled by OptumRx. Sign in securely with 2-factor authentication...and NoScript blocks a DoubleClick tracker/information gatherer attached to what must be a transparent pixel:

Code: Select all

NoScript detected a potential Cross-Site Scripting attack

from https://www.optumrx.com to https://8560775.fls.doubleclick.net.

Suspicious data:

(URL) https://8560775.fls.doubleclick.net/activityi;src=8560775;type=optum00;cat=lpg_o0;dc_lat=;dc_rdid=;tag_for_child_directed_treatment=;tfua=;npa=;ord=14775127823640156? width='1' height='1' frameborder='0' style='display:none'
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29250
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Drug prices

Another example:

Fixed Dose Combination Drugs: Consensi Is a Bad Example
The FDA recently approved Consensi, a combination of treatments for two very different diseases. It contains amlodipine, a common drug used to treat high blood pressure, and celecoxib, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID), used to relieve the pain of osteoarthritis. It comes in 3 strengths with varying doses of amlodipine, but all formulations contain the same amount of celecoxib: 200 mg. The company website says “ConsensiTM is under patent protection in the U.S. until 2030 and will be the only NSAID whose labeling indicates a reduction of blood pressure and consequent risk reduction of heart attack, stroke and death.”

The Medical Letter recently reviewed Consensi. Their conclusion:

There is no good reason to use the fixed-dose combination…The cost of the combination is much higher than the cost of the two components taken separately, and continued daily use of celecoxib can result in serious adverse effects, including renal and cardiovascular toxicity. Elderly patient should minimize their use of any NSAID, including celecoxib.

The cost for 30 days of treatment with Consensi is $1,287. Generic amlodipine alone costs$1.10. Generic celecoxib alone costs $34.40. Consensi is available at Costco with a free coupon for a reduced price of$1,104.13. Consensi carries a boxed warning of the risk of serious cardiovascular and gastrointestinal events.

The Coeptis and Kitov companies have entered into an agreement for commercialization under which Kitov will receive millions of dollars in royalties, milestone, and reimbursement payments.

Conclusion: An irrational product

It doesn’t make sense to combine these two ingredients for such very different diseases. How many patients have both diseases and would benefit from Consensi?

High blood pressure is seldom controlled on a single anti-hypertensive drug. In the best possible scenario, if a patient happens to have high blood pressure that is already well-controlled with amlodipine alone and also happens to have osteoarthritis that is already well-controlled with 200 mg of celecoxib alone, it would be more convenient to take one combination pill than two single pills. But does that convenience justify an added cost of over a thousand dollars a month, over $12,000 a year? I don’t think so! Patients might argue that they don’t have to pay for it, that insurance pays; but if insurance expenses go up, someone has to pay, and it ultimately impacts all of us. The idea that insurance pays for it anyway, so why care about the price: I don't understand how people can be so dumb as to think that way. You pay for your insurance one way or another. Ultimately you pay, (I.e., we all collectively pay) it's just that insurance makes it so that the costs are shared among a larger group of people. Here you have two drugs that combined cost less than$40/month, and they combined them into one pill to be sold for over $1,287?? (or$1,104.13 if you use a coupon and shop at Costco )
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Doctor X
Posts: 73832
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Drug prices

Wow.

– J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!!
shemp
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

### Re: Drug prices

Conclusion: An irrational product
Actually, it's very rational, from the POV of the profiteers. I wonder what the doctor's kickback is for prescribing this. Fucking thieves ought to be hanged by their balls until the wind whistles through their vulture-picked and sun-bleached bones.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

"what dicking deep shit i produce" -- pillory

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

People are shitting themselves to death
Crap so much they fail to take a breath
But even when their kids are starvin'
They thought Trump would throw them Charmin.
Paulie Cicero
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:52 am