BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

We are the Borg.
Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness »

No, Rob, you should not sign up:
Sky News wrote:Treatment centre for cryptocurrency addicts opens in the Scottish Borders
https://news.sky.com/story/treatment-ce ... s-11387974

:lmao:
Wilsondrake
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Wilsondrake »

Anaxagoras wrote:Jesus, that's a lot of electricity.
Abdul Alhazred wrote:How does that compare to the amount of electricity used by cam whores?
I don't know, but somebody has calculated how much electricity it takes to run the Internet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... dd9ef41fff
America’s myriad server farms and data centers operate 100 million drives that hold 350 million terabytes of data — everything from your decade-old emails to lolcat videos and the collected offerings of Netflix NFLX -0.3%.

A new report from the Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory figures that those data centers use an enormous amount of energy — some 70 billion kilowatt hours per year. That amounts to 1.8% of total American electricity consumption. At an average cost of 10 cents per kwh, the annual cost of all that juice is on the order of $7 billion.

Seventy billion kilowatt hours is such a giant number that it’s helpful to put it into some other terms. For comparison purposes, 1 kwh is enough power to keep ten 100-watt lightbulbs illuminated for one hour, or to keep your smartphone charged for an entire year.


To generate 70 billion kwh you’d need power plants with a baseload capacity of 8,000 megawatts — equivalent to about 8 big nuclear reactors, or twice the output of all the nation’s solar panels.

Sliced up per capita, the average American uses about 200 kwh a year for his or her internet use, costing about $20. For those of you obsessed with carbon footprints, your internet use is responsible for the emission of about 300 pounds of carbon dioxide per year.

But our internet addiction is only growing. According to Nielsen, the average adult in the United States spends 10 hours and 39 minutes a day consuming digital media. That’s up an hour a day in the past year. And we’re spending most of that additional time peering at our smart phones, which now occupy us for an hour and a half each day.
And that's just for America. According to another article I found, porn accounts for about 30% of internet traffic, so you can do the math. As of now porn probably uses more electricity than bitcoin, but they're in the same ballpark.
Why is everyone so much concerned with the electricity here ? Bitcoin or the Cryptocurrency or the blockchain technology is revolutionary. People mostly consider it as a source of income or money only. But it is actually an asset.

Find out the real use cases and ba bang! you have a new mode of exchange. Likewise exchange websites like Binance, have made their own coin named as BNB this was the usecase as people trading at Binance now can use BNB to pay for Binance fees there and then. For me Cryptocurrency or most call it bitcoin lolll is the revolution and if you do not jump in yet then you are mising out. PEACE
Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness »

Bitcoin's Use in Commerce Keeps Falling Even as Volatility Eases
  • Chainalysis study shows payment usage peaked in September
  • Merchants seeing more transactions for bigger-ticket items
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lity-eases

https://i.imgur.com/SgR3aHN.png

https://i.imgur.com/5oU6Yl9.png
Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness »

Energy cost of 'mining' bitcoin more than twice that of copper or gold

New research reveals that cryptocurrencies require far more electricity per-dollar than it takes to mine most real metals

The amount of energy required to “mine” one dollar’s worth of bitcoin is more than twice that required to mine the same value of copper, gold or platinum, according to a new paper, suggesting that the virtual work that underpins bitcoin, ethereum and similar projects is more similar to real mining than anyone intended.

One dollar’s worth of bitcoin takes about 17 megajoules of energy to mine, according to researchers from the Oak Ridge Institute in Cincinnati, Ohio, compared with four, five and seven megajoules for copper, gold and platinum.
[…]
The new paper is the first to look at the mining efforts from the point of view of energy cost per dollar benefit. “The comparison is made to quantify and contextualise the decentralised energy demand that the mining of these cryptocurrencies requires,” the authors write, “and to encourage debate on whether these energy demands are both sustainable and appropriate given the product that results from relatively similar energy consumption (when normalised by market price).”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... er-or-gold
Rob Lister
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister »

Witness wrote: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:16 am
... is more similar to real mining than anyone intended.


:roll:
Anaxagoras
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Maybe someone should have invented a "greener" cryptocurrency sooner. I.e., does it inherently need to consume all that power?

Ethereum Plans to Cut Its Absurd Energy Consumption by 99 Percent
The cryptocurrency is going on an energy diet to compete with more efficient blockchains

Bitcoin soaks up most of the hype and the opprobrium heaped on cryptocurrencies, leaving its younger and smaller sibling Ethereum in the shadows. But Ethereum is anything but small. Its market capitalization was roughly US $10 billion at press time, and it has an equally whopping energy footprint.

Ethereum mining consumes a quarter to half of what Bitcoin mining does, but that still means that for most of 2018 it was using roughly as much electricity as Iceland. Indeed, the typical Ethereum transaction gobbles more power than an average U.S. household uses in a day.

“That’s just a huge waste of resources, even if you don’t believe that pollution and carbon dioxide are an issue. There are real consumers—real people—whose need for electricity is being displaced by this stuff,” says Vitalik Buterin, the 24-year-old Russian-Canadian computer scientist who invented Ethereum when he was just 18.

Buterin plans to finally start undoing his brainchild’s energy waste in 2019. This year Buterin, the Ethereum Foundation he cofounded, and the broader open-source movement advancing the cryptocurrency all plan to field-test a long-promised overhaul of Ethereum’s code. If these developers are right, by the end of 2019 Ethereum’s new code could complete transactions using just 1 percent of the energy consumed today.
Even if you are a global warming skeptic, electricity costs money, so why would you want to consume more of it than you need to?
Anaxagoras
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:25 am The trick was always to use someone else's electricity.
Efficiency is is always an advantage. I think the massive amount of power that bitcoin consumes could be its achilles heel.

Objectively, there any reason other than it was the first and most famous cryptocurrency why bitcoin should be worth more than any other? :notsure:
Rob Lister
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister »

Anaxagoras wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:12 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:25 am The trick was always to use someone else's electricity.
Efficiency is is always an advantage. I think the massive amount of power that bitcoin consumes could be its achilles heel.
But that power cost equated to vested interest; it defined the bottom dollar. I'm not going to sell my coins for less than they cost me to mine them if I can help it.
Objectively, there any reason other than it was the first and most famous cryptocurrency why bitcoin should be worth more than any other? :notsure:
Being first is important. But I'm :notsure: either.

Looking at the Ethereum plan, I gotta say that I don't get it. I get Proof of Work but I can't wrap my wee mind around Proof of Stake. I'm not hating it becasue I don't really understand it.
Anaxagoras
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Quadriga: Cryptocurrency exchange founder's death locks $140m
Canada's largest cryptocurrency exchange is unable to access millions in digital currency following the sudden death of its founder.

Quadriga has filed for creditor protection and estimates that about C$180m ($137m; £105m) in cryptocurrency coins is missing.

It has not been able to locate or secure its cryptocurrency reserves since Gerald Cotten died in December.

Cotten, 30, had sole responsibility for handling the funds and coins.

In court documents filed with the Nova Scotia Supreme Court on 31 January, his widow Jennifer Robertson, says the laptop on which Cotten "carried out the companies' business is encrypted and I do not know the password or recovery key".

"Despite repeated and diligent searches, I have not been able to find them written down anywhere," the affidavit states.

The company hired an investigator to see if any information could be retrieved but ongoing efforts have had only "limited success in recovering a few coins" and some information from Cotten's computer and phone.

The company is also investigating whether some of the cryptocurrency could be secured on other exchanges, according to court files.

They say about 115,000 Quadriga users hold balances in their personal accounts in the form of cash obligations and cryptocurrency.

The company estimates it owes about C$250m ($190m; £145m) - including C$70m in hard currency.

The affidavit says the majority of the cryptocurrency was kept by Quadriga in a "cold wallet" or "cold storage", which is located offline and used to secure cryptocurrency from hacking or theft.
Brilliant.
Rob Lister
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Rob Lister »

More like a modern buried treasure.
Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness »

Cryprocurrency fallout:
Cryptocurrency is an abject disaster

Over the past several months, everyone in the industry who provides any kind of free CPU resources has been dealing with a massive outbreak of abuse for cryptocurrency mining. The industry has been setting up informal working groups to pool knowledge of mitigations, communicate when our platforms are being leveraged against one another, and cumulatively wasting thousands of hours of engineering time implementing measures to deal with this abuse, and responding as attackers find new ways to circumvent them.

Cryptocurrency has invented an entirely new category of internet abuse. CI services like mine are not alone in this struggle: JavaScript miners, botnets, and all kinds of other illicit cycles are being spent solving pointless math problems to make money for bad actors. Some might argue that abuse is inevitable for anyone who provides a public service — but prior to cryptocurrency, what kind of abuse would a CI platform endure? Email spam? Block port 25. Someone might try to host their website on ephemeral VMs with dynamic DNS or something, I dunno. Someone found a way of monetizing stolen CPU cycles directly, so everyone who offered free CPU cycles for legitimate use-cases is now unable to provide those services. If not for cryptocurrency, these services would still be available.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking that these are a bunch of script kiddies. There are large, talented teams of engineers across several organizations working together to combat this abuse, and they’re losing. A small sample of tactics I’ve seen or heard of include:
  • Using CPU limiters to manipulate monitoring tools.
  • Installing crypto miners into the build systems for free software projects so that the builds appear legitimate.
  • Using password dumps to steal login credentials for legitimate users and then leveraging their accounts for mining.
I would give more examples, but secrecy is a necessary part of defending against this — which really sucks for an organization that otherwise strives to be as open and transparent as sourcehut does.

Cryptocurrency problems are more subtle than outright abuse, too. The integrity and trust of the entire software industry has sharply declined due to cryptocurrency. It sets up perverse incentives for new projects, where developers are no longer trying to convince you to use their software because it’s good, but because they think that if they can convince you it will make them rich. I’ve had to develop a special radar for reading product pages now: a mounting feeling of dread as a promising technology is introduced while I inevitably arrive at the buried lede: it’s more crypto bullshit. Cryptocurrency is the multi-level marketing of the tech world. “Hi! How’ve you been? Long time no see! Oh, I’ve been working on this cool distributed database file store archive thing. We’re doing an ICO next week.” Then I leave. Any technology which is not an (alleged) currency and which incorporates blockchain anyway would always work better without it.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of cryptocurrency scams and ponzi schemes trussed up to look like some kind of legitimate offering. Even if the project you’re working on is totally cool and solves all of these problems, there are 100 other projects pretending to be like yours which are ultimately concerned with transferring money from their users to their founders. Which one are investors more likely to invest in? Hint: it’s the one that’s more profitable. Those promises of “we’re different!” are always hollow anyway. Remember the DAO? They wanted to avoid social arbitration entirely for financial contracts, but when the chips are down and their money was walking out the door, they forked the blockchain.

That’s what cryptocurrency is all about: not novel technology, not empowerment, but making money. It has failed as an actual currency outside of some isolated examples of failed national economies. No, cryptocurrency is not a currency at all: it’s an investment vehicle. A tool for making the rich richer. And that’s putting it nicely; in reality it has a lot more in common with a Ponzi scheme than a genuine investment. What “value” does solving fake math problems actually provide to anyone? It’s all bullshit.
https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryp ... aster.html for the rest.
gnome
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by gnome »

An interesting article about how cryptocurrency mining is exploiting a failed state, leading to blackouts for residents.

https://www.rferl.org/a/bitcoin-blackou ... 68307.html

What does this say? Obviously shitty things happen in shitty places and that's no surprise. But I think this counters an occasional narrative that cryptocurrency offers some hope for financial stability in the absence of effective government.
Witness
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by Witness »

I also read (but dunno if it's true) that the present GPU shortage is partly due to bitcoin miners buying them up.
gnome
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Re: BitCoin: Should I Sign Up?

Post by gnome »

I think specifically Etherium miners in the case of GPUs, if I remember correctly.