Fukushima one year on

We are the Borg.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Witness wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:01 pm
robinson wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:23 pm More people die from every other cause of death than from nuclear power each year.
Saved for posterity.
Well it's true. More people die from a scalding-hot fishcake at a wedding, falling into a vat of cooking oil, eating a garden slug or being attacked and killed by a pet deer than from nuclear power.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

The reason they can't just unload the spent fuel is the area is radioactive, and dangerous. So is removing fuel rods from the pool. The lack of actual data on the areas they need to work in is telling.

A working reactor, with no damage, requires a huge workforce to refuel, because of regulations on how much radiation a worker can receive legally. Just moving (all underwater) fuel rods to and from the reactor is dangerous.

In all of this the powers that be never actually explain just how dangerous "spent" nuclear fuel is, much less the melted version.
Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco), said atmospheric readings as high as 530 sieverts an hour had been recorded
inside the containment vessel of reactor No 2
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... 1-meltdown

They claim these levels are "unexpected", which is probably true,
https://www.sciencealert.com/radiation- ... y-climbing

Nobody actually knows, (https://xkcd.com/radiation/), but those levels of radiation are highly likely to be lethal to humans in less than a minute. And even hardened radiation shielded robots can't last long.

At Three Mile Island they were able to use long rods and tools to remove melted fuel from the reactor vessel, all underwater of course. It was not much fuel, and it was all contained in a steel vessel. The ruined reactors at Fukushima are like Chernobyl, in the sense they will never be "cleaned up". If the Japanese come up with some magic way to actually move melted fuel (and corium), they could practice on Chernobyl first.

Just kidding. Nobody will be moving the Chernobyl melted core either.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

To avoid confusion, the radiation levels in and near the spent fuel ponds is nowhere near the melted core levels. But it's still bad enough they can't do anything yet.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

That facts like these make people mad reminds me of how people react to facts about climate change.
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Yes yes it's all still leathally radioactive and so can't be touched for thousands of years.

Nukes remain the safest way to generate electricity by any metric.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Fri May 18, 2012 2:21 am
Rob Lister wrote:how many deaths?
Let you know in 20 years...........................
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

I changed my mind thanks to Listy.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

I liked you better when you weren't a damn fool about this
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Ad hom man strikes again.

Please explain to us all how your opinion is teh twoof.

Alternately, you could always shove a steak knife up your ass :)
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

you prove my point
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Your point seems to be insisting you're correct while ignoring the evidences.

To each his own. :)
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

The nuclear nutjob doesn't let facts get in the way. They almost never have. The true nuclear believer just ignores anything that might disturb their belief. With an almost religious like fervor, they might actually wish violence on anyone who questions them, or worse, points out how wrong they are, and have been.

robinson wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:41 am Nobody, not the Japanese, or the Americans, nor the Chinese will ever solve the problem. Not on your lifetime, and not in your grandkids lifetimes.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... gy-source/

Nobody has solved the "easy" problem, what to do with the relatively safe spent fuel rods. And all the worlds nuclear powers have had 70 years to do so. Melted fuel mixed with debris at the bottom of a disaster, and just one reactor with no ruined containment building, is also a problem not solved.

Multiple reactors and buildings? Maybe in a hundred years some progress will be made. But nobody alive will ever see it.

It's exactly the much feared scenario that caused the US to fail in building any more reactors, the very real possibility that just one reactor would fail, and in the worst possible way. After 30 years the other disaster is still not even close to being "fixed", and this is a melted reactor with fuel that can be observed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl ... is_removal

Of course the nuclear moonbats don't give a fuck, because reality has never been an obstacle to a true believer, no matter what the noble cause.
Chernobyl is a complete meltdown of a nuclear core. The lack of a containment structure means it would be much easier to "remove" the melted fuel. And all the other radioactive elements, and all of the radioactive debris, and Which of course is "the plan".

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/ ... byl-today/

The stark reality is that after 30 years, they aren't even close to doing anything with the fuel (the biggest danger). If the world, or the Japanese, come up with a way to do anything with a melted core, and all the very radioactive material around it, Chernobyl would be the place to test it.

But in reality 30 years from now none of the Chernobyl core will have been moved, and none of the three melted cores at Fukushima will have been moved. Much less made "safe".

Just like the Windscale disaster of 10 October 1957, in which the melted core is still exactly where it was. And it's still dangerous, and hot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale ... operations

That melted core is still sitting there, 63 years later, and no plans are in place to move it. or make it "safe". After 63 years you might think it would become obvious that there is no solution to a melted core. A meltdown disaster.

Now there are four more, and nothing is going to be done about moving them in the next 63 years either. Almost everyone involved in the Windscale is dead now, and in their lifetime, nothing was done about "removing" the incredibly dangerous damaged fuel. Just like in your lifetime, you will never see any of the melted cores moved anywhere.

In a very real sense, there is not much to be done.

But the true nuclear believer actually believes this doesn't matter, and nuclear power is the safest thing of all.

Fucking priceless.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

robinson wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:49 pm In other news, after Sandy flooded New York hospital basements, a few people decided to look at where emergency generators and electrical rooms are located in important areas, like hospitals, nuclear reactor sites, water treatment and sewer plants, emergency centers, and emergency shelters.

Finding they are all in basements, or low areas, was an actual shock to the investigations. In other words, by design flooding will destroy the infrastructure of not only nuclear power plants, it will also bring down everything else.
One might wonder if anything has been done about any of it.

(since it cost money, I would say no)
Witness
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Japan Races to Build New Coal-Burning Power Plants, Despite the Climate Risks

It is one unintended consequence of the Fukushima nuclear disaster almost a decade ago, which forced Japan to all but close its nuclear power program. Japan now plans to build as many as 22 new coal-burning power plants — one of the dirtiest sources of electricity — at 17 different sites in the next five years, just at a time when the world needs to slash carbon dioxide emissions to fight global warming.

...

Together the 22 power plants would emit almost as much carbon dioxide annually as all the passenger cars sold each year in the United States. The construction stands in contrast with Japan’s effort to portray this summer’s Olympic Games in Tokyo as one of the greenest ever.

The Yokosuka project has prompted unusual pushback in Japan, where environmental groups more typically focus their objections on nuclear power. But some local residents are suing the government over its approval of the new coal-burning plant in what supporters hope will jump-start opposition to coal in Japan.

The Japanese government, the plaintiffs say, rubber-stamped the project without a proper environmental assessment. The complaint is noteworthy because it argues that the plant will not only degrade local air quality, but will also endanger communities by contributing to climate change.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/clim ... shima.html
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Yes: The melted cores you mentioned Robinson are still there. Yes: They are incredibly dangerous. Yes: They will be for quite some time. At Chernobyl, the core material that did not blast into the early morning sky on that truly fucked up day has been accounted for and is still there. At Fukushima, I've read that not all the core material has been accounted for, simply because no human can get close enough to search for it. This does not mean that it comes out at night searching for fresh young NBLs to feed on. So, where is all this danger and lack of safety of which you scream? The stuff isn't "coming after" anyone. It isn't going anywhere.

Next up on your disaster-porn radar will be "But what about the groundwater????"

If in the years since both disasters the groundwater still isn't a problem, then it's unlikely to ever become a problem. And if it should, it's really quite simple: Don't drink the shit.

But, let's put some definition on 'dangerous' and 'safe'.

People are working at the Fukushima plants and are not mutated radiated death monsters. Tours of Chernobyl happen all the time. The peeps who go on them are still alive.

Just stay a safe fucking distance away from wherever it's too hot to go. And don't depend on anyone other than yourself to know what that is!

And I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone here this: There are evidence-ignoring true bleeeeeving nut jobs on both sides.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

robinson wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:51 pm
sparks wrote: Fri May 18, 2012 2:21 am
Rob Lister wrote:how many deaths?
Let you know in 20 years...........................
The first death that anyone would admit to was in 2018

https://time.com/5388178/japan-first-fu ... tion-death

Getting anyone to admit a death was from something they are responsible for is hard. When it comes to radioactive material from a reactor, it's really hard.

The soviets, err, I mean Russians, Ukrainians, somebody, still deny anyone died from Chernobyl, except for the immediate deaths that happened right away.
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Shit happens.

And idiot was measuring radiation levels at the time of his exposure. Why the fuck didn't he get to safety?

Sorry, no sympathy for this one.

But it is good to see teh Mad Powerz finally recognizing a radiation related death rather than just ignoring it.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:34 pm Shit happens.
https://i.imgur.com/uXnuJSo.jpg
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Rant all you like robinson.

Shit still happens.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

It's funny, using that defense.

After the Exxon Valdez disaster, Captain Joseph Hazelwood said, "Shit happens".

It was widely reported that he had been drinking heavily that night, was not at the controls when the ship struck the reef. and Exxon blamed Captain Hazelwood for the grounding of the tanker.

(shit happens, get over it)

None of that was true of course.

In reality, the third mate was at the helm. and he ran into the Bligh Reef.

The RAYCAS radar is how you avoid that particular shit from happening. . But the radar was not turned on. In fact, the tanker's radar was left broken and disabled for more than a year before the disaster, and Exxon management knew it. It was just too expensive to fix and operate.

But hey, just say "Shit happens", shrug your shoulders and move on.

Because you know in your heart, you really just don't give shit.
ceptimus
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by ceptimus »

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... production

According to the article, the workers cleaning up the Fukushima mess wear special disposable protective plastic overcoats: amazingly, they get through six thousand a day. But the coronavirus outbreak has affected the availability of such garments, so the Fukushima staff may have to swap to using more generic disposable raincoats: the article says these will be just as safe, but will lack the transparent pockets for displaying ID badges and other special features built into the garments they normally wear.
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

robinson wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:41 am

Because you know in your heart, you really just don't give shit.
Amazing! Learning finally occurs. You're right for once: I just don't give a fuck.

Particularly about shit I can't change. I leave that to peeps like yourself. :)
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Much of the internet is just the writing on the shit house wall
Witness
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Japan lifts evacuation order for town hit by Fukushima disaster

Futaba to reopen for start of Olympic torch relay after being deserted for nine years

Japan has lifted an evacuation order for parts of a town in the shadow of the wrecked Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, weeks before the area is to host the start of the Olympic torch relay.

Futaba, 2.4 miles (4km) west of the plant, has been almost deserted since the nuclear meltdown nine years ago, while other areas in the region have mounted a partial recovery after the government declared them safe for residents.

The start of the relay’s Japan leg at the end of the month is supposed to showcase Fukushima’s recovery from the world’s worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 1986, but some residents say their home towns may never return to normal.

Futaba’s 7,000 residents were forced to evacuate after the March 2011 disaster, which was triggered by a powerful earthquake and tsunami that killed more than 18,000 people along Japan’s north-east coast.

The reopening of a 1.5 sq mile area of Futaba means reconstruction workers can stay in accommodation near the railway station, but residents will not be able to return for another two years, when its water supply and other infrastructure will have been restored, according to local officials.

They will be able to enter and leave for short visits without going through security, and will no longer need to wear protective clothing, but will not be allowed to stay overnight.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... a-disaster

Sounds like a Japanese Potemkin village. :mrgreen:
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

And still the deadly, evil corium creeps closer, ever closer to infants and young virgin NBLs... :)
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

DrMatt wrote: Wed May 16, 2012 9:06 pm ItllNeverHappenHeretm
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

No it won't, not with the way you're flooding things here.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

You are daft
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

You are ignored. Cunt.
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

sparks wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:31 am You are ignored.
Hey! Same way you deal with Fukushima!
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Ignored cunts are ignored.

I do not hear ignored cunts.
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Have fun being ignored.

Cunt.
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

Ignoring you as well.

Cunt.

But not as ignored as robinsuck is being ignored. :)
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

LET'S ALL IGNORE THE PROBLEM/
robinson
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Bruce wrote: Wed May 16, 2012 10:57 pm Has the reactor melted it's way down to the core of the earth yet? You know, like the nuclear scientists of the 1940's promised?
Actually, you know, it was the China syndrome that concerned scientists.

It is a very dire situation that a pile of nuclear fuel can just keep burning it's way through pretty much anything. No metal, no rock can stop it. And this shit is just an accidental situation. If you planned it, and used a lot of fuel (not just the paltry hundred tons or so from a reactor core), and could find a spot with no underground water, you could bore a hole down to the magma layer. Instant volcano!
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Yes, the isolation and not being able to work is starting to cause real problems
Anaxagoras
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Anaxagoras »

Interesting historical podcast about this:


https://timharford.com/etc/more-or-less/

Look for the episode called "A Tsunami of Misery"
sparks
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by sparks »

That was a good one. Thanks Anax!
Witness
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by Witness »

Japan to release treated Fukushima water into sea: reports

Japan will release more than a million tonnes of treated water from the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant into the sea in a decades-long operation, reports said Friday, despite strong opposition from local fishermen.

The release of the water, which has been filtered to reduce radioactivity, is likely to start in 2022 at the earliest, said national dailies the Nikkei, the Yomiuri, and other local media.

The decision ends years of debate over how to dispose of the liquid that includes water used to cool the power station hit by a massive tsunami in 2011.

A government panel said earlier this year that releasing the water into the sea or evaporating it were both "realistic options".

As of last month, there were 1.23 million tonnes of waste water at the facility, the Nikkei reported.

Environmental activists have expressed strong opposition to the proposals, and fishermen and farmers have voiced fear that consumers will shun seafood and produce from the region.

South Korea, which bans imports of seafood from the area, has also repeatedly voiced concern about the environmental impact.

Japan's government has been deliberating the issue for more than three years, but a decision is becoming urgent as space to store the water -- which also includes groundwater and rain that seeps daily into the plant -- is running out.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... ea-reports
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Re: Fukushima one year on

Post by robinson »

Like every nuclear disaster, it will never actually be cleaned up