Right to repair

We are the Borg.
Witness
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Right to repair

Post by Witness »

Motherboard wrote:Apple Tells Lawmaker that Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers

Apple is inventing new and interesting arguments to prevent you from fixing your iPhone: It's lobbying Nebraska lawmakers to kill "right to repair" legislation, telling them unauthorized repair will turn the state into a "mecca" for hackers.

Right to repair bills, which are currently making their way through eight states (Nebraska, New York, Tennessee, Wyoming, Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois, and Massachusetts), would require electronics manufacturers to make repair parts and diagnostic and repair manuals available to independent repair professionals and consumers, not just "authorized" repair companies. Electronics right to repair legislation is modeled on a 2012 Massachusetts law that preserved the right to repair cars.

The most logical reason for manufacturers to oppose the bills is that it would democratize the repair economy, making it possible for consumers to fix their own things and cutting into the profits of repairs done at, for example, the Apple store.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... or-hackers

And also:
Modern Farmer wrote:Farmers Demand Right to Fix Their Own Dang Tractors

This might be hard to believe for non-farmers, but owners of tractors aren't actually allowed to fix them, thanks to a set of laws designed to protect software intellectual property.
http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

How about a bill called "The Right To Not Buy Bullshit In The First Place"???
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

Suppose there is no choice?
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

Suppose there is no choice?
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

There is always a choice.

Choice.

The hardships endured doing without a product may be greater that the legislative hassle of getting the damned thing fixed when it breaks, but...that is a choice.
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

Semantics. If I am a farmer in Myakka City and the three tractor companies that are local are all restrictive, what exactly is my choice?

I'd go further. suppose you actually value your privacy. What are your choices for software, hardware and services? Government does have a purpose and that is to protect the little guy.
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

Your choice then becomes not to use anything that will compromise your privacy.

A shitty choice to be sure, but there it is.

Don't use tractors on your coca plantation that will give away your goat porn collection the first time you have to take them in to get them fixed.
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

In other words, a choice that is no choice. Hobsons choice.
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

Right. Really no choice, especially with the more complex (cellphones, confusers, and the like) devices. In the case of a tractor, I expect someone somewhere is still making those without resort to computers to tell the pistons when to change holes...
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

You both suck.

I mean that in a purely negative way rather than as a sexual slur, which might be misconstrued. That is to say that is insulting rather than derogatory. Never mistake my malice for simple insulting behavior.
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

I live to serve. :-)
Anaxagoras
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Anaxagoras »

But what this has meant is that tractor owners can’t repair their own tractors—and if they do, they’re in violation of the DMCA. So, if a machine stops working, its owner can’t pop the hood, run some tests, and find out what’s going on; he or she is legally required to take the tractor to a service center (one owned by the manufacturer, since that’s the only entity allowed to analyze the tractor’s issues). This can be expensive and time-consuming, and more to the point, unnecessary—at least according to farmers in several states, who are lobbying to force tractor manufacturers make their diagnostic tools available to independent repair shops and owners.
So it's slightly different than they want the right to fix their own tractors. They want the government to force the maker to provide the tools to fix them.

If it's a purely mechanical problem rather than a software issue, would the DMCA even come into play?

Here's another story about this.


Alford and I sit in the air conditioned enclosed cabin of his John Deere 8520T tractor. In the cabin are little computer screens that monitor the engine.

"So I can monitor, for example, what my hydraulics are doing that's running the implement behind me," Alford says. "I can monitor the regular standard things in an engine."

And the little computer screen lets him know when something is wrong. Unfortunately, Alford isn't allowed to fix it. John Deere has a digital lock on the software that runs his tractor. And it won't give him the key.

If something goes wrong with one of his tractors Alford has to take it to an authorized John Deere dealer — the closest one is about 40 miles away — or a John Deere rep has to come visit him. Alford had an issue about a year ago; the tractor belts were loose. He waited a day for the John Deere rep.

"The tech came out and it took him a couple hours to diagnose that there was one small sensor out. And that one small sensor, I think it was a $120 part."

The problem with this setup is that in farming timing is everything. When the soil is soft enough to till you have to go; when the crop is ripe you have to pick it.

"So if you have a small problem that does not allow your tractor to operate and you have downtime it's costing you money and a lot of stress," he says.

You may wonder why Alford doesn't just break that digital lock and get into the software and fix the problems himself. He could, but he'd be breaking the law. It's called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, or DMCA. It was written because movie studios were worried that people would break the digital locks on DVDs, make copies and pirate them.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that farmers today (in America) are not for the most part poor struggling families trying to eke out a living on a hundred acres. This particular gentleman considers himself to be a "small" farmer.
Alford considers himself a small farmer — he's got 1,000 acres in San Luis Obispo along the central coast of California where he grows snow peas, garbanzo beans, hay and seed crops.
I speak here about that of which I know not, but with 1,000 acres I'm guessing that guy makes pretty good money. People buy these fancy modern tractors that run on software because frankly they are worth it.
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

If he can afford the tractor mentioned, he's definitely not a small family farmer.
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Anaxagoras »

ed wrote:ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
No, not without a mortgage. But lots of people make houses, there's no monopoly or oligopoly on those.

There's not many makers of modern farm tractors. John Deere alone controls like 35% of it and the top three makers control 70%. So yeah, maybe there is a case here for "protecting the little guy". Still, the government already does a lot to help farmers.

https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/ag ... /subsidies
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) spends $25 billion or more a year on subsidies for farm businesses. The particular amount each year depends on the market prices of crops and other factors. Most agricultural subsidies go to farmers of a handful of major crops, including wheat, corn, soybeans, rice, and cotton. Roughly a million farmers and landowners receive federal subsidies, but the payments are heavily tilted toward the largest producers.
(I'm not sure I actually agree with this guy 100%. But his basic facts regarding how much the government spends seem to be correct. There are side benefits to subsidizing farmers, I think. Like cheap food. Like, we always produce more than enough food, which is wasteful perhaps, but better too much than not enough, right? If there's extra we can always send it to those starving Africans, although I suppose that could hurt their farmers.)
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

ed wrote:ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
No.

Can't agree it's the same thing. A house/home is a basic human need. A tractor is a specific tool. There are cheaper ways to get after tilling the soil that do not involve computers and air-conditioned cabins. But, once Teh Orange Fucktard builds that wall, that'll be out the window too. But that's a different thread. :)
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

sparks wrote:I live to serve. :-)
http://2.1m.yt/T5vsj2k.jpg

:wink:
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

Damn shame. They always run away when they sense the power of my Ungrounded Plug!
gnome
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Re: Right to repair

Post by gnome »

But do you deny them your essence?
sparks
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Re: Right to repair

Post by sparks »

Why, yes. I do not avoid appliances Mandrake. They sense my 60 cycle 120 volt power, and they seek the electron flow.

But, I do deny them my...essence.
ed
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Re: Right to repair

Post by ed »

sparks wrote:
ed wrote:ummm can you afford a house? I don't mean with a load, can you simply buy it? Same thing.
No.

Can't agree it's the same thing. A house/home is a basic human need. A tractor is a specific tool. There are cheaper ways to get after tilling the soil that do not involve computers and air-conditioned cabins. But, once Teh Orange Fucktard builds that wall, that'll be out the window too. But that's a different thread. :)

Thought about it, you are right.
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

Logical consequence:
There's a Thriving John Deere Black Market as Farmers Fight for "Right to Repair"

A flourishing black market of John Deere parts exists online, connecting farmers in rural America with counterparts in Eastern Europe to buy unlocked firmware crucial to tractors. If you're surprised by the idea of Nebraska farmers working together with Ukrainian suppliers to defeat a tractor company, well, welcome to the bizarre fight over "right to repair."

Those who use the black market, documented in a report by Motherboard, claim they are driven to it by restrictive licensing agreement by Deere, one of the largest tractor companies in the world. Those restrictions would bar the tractors' users from fixing its hardware or software themselves, but such rules are currently being challenged by so-called "right to repair" legislation working its way various states at the moment, including farming-heavy Nebraska.

One reason right to repair has been such a contentious issue in ag states is that time is a crucial commodity since crops are reliant on seasons. "When crunch time comes and we break down, chances are we don't have time to wait for a dealership employee to show up and fix it," Danny Kluthe, a hog farmer in Nebraska, said during testimony to his state's legislature earlier this month. "Most all the new equipment [requires] a download [to fix]."

Right to repair legislation would invalidate John Deere's license agreement, updated last October, which has severe restrictions that prohibit nearly all repair and modification to farming equipment.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... -thriving/
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

Follow up:
New copyright exemptions let you legally repair your phone or jailbreak voice assistants

The US Copyright Office has made it legal to hack your tractor

In a big victory for hacker, tinkerers, and the right to repair movement, the US Copyright Office has ruled some major changes to the legal exemption to the DMCA, making it far easier for owners to build software tools to hack, modify, and repair their own devices, as explained by iFixit founder Kyle Wiens.

Under section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), it is “unlawful to circumvent technological measures used to prevent unauthorized access to copyrighted works.” Because software has become so integral to all the devices we use — everything from phones to speakers to even trackers — device manufacturers have long used section 1201 to prevent owners from taking apart or repairing their own devices, arguing that breaking the software locks as part of replacing parts or modifying your gadgets is a violation of that statute.

But as part of that law, citizens are allowed to petition for exemptions to section 1201 every three years, when the Copyright Office rules what kind of repairs and software tools are and aren’t allowed by the law. The final ruling for this cycle was just released (it goes into effect as law on October 28th), and it enacts broad new protections for repairing devices.
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker ... exemptions
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

https://i.imgur.com/cNd3mwG.jpg
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

Somewhat linked to the thread subject:
Italy consumer association sues Apple for planned iPhone obsolescence

MILAN (Reuters) - Italian consumer association Altroconsumo said on Monday it had told Apple it has launched a class action against the U.S. tech giant for the practice of planned obsolescence.

In a statement Altroconsumo said it was asking for damages of 60 million euros ($73 million) on behalf of Italian consumers tricked by the practice which had also been recognised by Italian authorities.

Altroconsumo said the lawsuit covers owners of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, 6S and 6S Plus, sales of which in Italy totalled some 1 million phones between 2014 and 2020.

Apple said in an email that it had never done anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades.

Two similar lawsuits against Apple have been filed in Belgium and Spain for the planned obsolescence of iPhones.

European consumer association Euroconsumers, which is coordinating the three lawsuits, said it was also planning to launch a class action in Portugal in the coming weeks.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... SKBN29U1BB
robinson
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Re: Right to repair

Post by robinson »

No monopoly, no political/technological criminal enterprise can survive with out a Government to act as the enforcer. And it has to be a government that controls agents with guns. And agents who are willing to kill you if you resist them.

Mao was right
robinson
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Re: Right to repair

Post by robinson »

When I see some crazy ass fucked up shit involving something like "right to repair", I already know there is big money involved, And that means big government involved, and that means men with guns who will show up and do shit to enforce the corporations will, and if you resist they will arrest you, and if you resist arrest they will kill you.
gnome
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Re: Right to repair

Post by gnome »

robinson wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:11 am No monopoly, no political/technological criminal enterprise can survive with out a Government to act as the enforcer. And it has to be a government that controls agents with guns. And agents who are willing to kill you if you resist them.

Mao was right
That might be something of a tautological argument--because if it is enforced by some other means than a formal government, rhetorically one could claim that the enforcement means is a de facto government.

So the question becomes, can a monopoly survive without force? Possibly not, if only because sooner or later they will need force to defend themselves.

I'll note though in this case--the government is being asked to intervene in a company accused of abusing their power. They don't need government's permission to build devices that nobody else can repair. They've proven the ability to do so by technical means. It may take the government to stop them building them that way.
Witness
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Witness »

Half of U.S. States looking to give Americans the Right to Repair

25 states have introduced or carried over Right to Repair legislation so far this year

https://i.imgur.com/UjJOWzG.jpg
https://uspirg.org/blogs/blog/usp/half- ... ght-repair for details.
Rob Lister
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Re: Right to repair

Post by Rob Lister »

this is a good thing i think.
robinson
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Re: Right to repair

Post by robinson »

It reminds me of the seed issue


Big corporations want the government to enforce their edict that you can’t grow crops with out buying seeds from them
robinson
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Re: Right to repair

Post by robinson »

That’s not a joke, it’s not satire