Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

We are the Borg.
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Just got back from a funeral home. About 30 people in the room. Five people including myself were wearing masks. Several people, maskless, gave their condolences to my 98-year-old uncle, who was not masked. I kept mine on and I'm glad I did. I don't ever want to be the guy who gives this disease to someone else.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Arkansas governor is now asking his state legislature to change the law he recently signed that bans local mask mandates and prohibits school districts from deciding about masks, because there has been a huge increase in cases and an increase in hospitalizations among children, including an increase in children in ICU.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... n-schools/

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." --Philip K. Dick
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

However...

robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

Witness
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Witness »

House lawmaker suing Pelosi over mask rule says he has COVID

Rep. Ralph Norman, one of the three congressional Republicans suing Speaker Nancy Pelosi over fines for not wearing masks during a vote on the U.S. House floor, has contracted a breakthrough case of COVID-19, the second member of South Carolina's delegation to do so.

Norman, who has said he has been fully vaccinated since February, tweeted that he began experiencing minor symptoms of COVID-19 on Thursday, tested positive for the virus that day and would quarantine for 10 days.

Representing South Carolina's 5th District since 2017, Norman is part of a federal lawsuit against Pelosi over a mandate earlier this year that members wear masks while on the House floor.

Last week, Norman and U.S. Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia and Thomas Massie of Kentucky sued Pelosi, seeking a determination that their $500 fines — issued because they went maskless during a May vote — are unconstitutional and should be rescinded.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/hou ... dlines_hed
Doctor X
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Doctor X »

Pyrrho wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:25 pm Arkansas governor is now asking his state legislature to change the law he recently signed that bans local mask mandates and prohibits school districts from deciding about masks, because there has been a huge increase in cases and an increase in hospitalizations among children, including an increase in children in ICU.
Notice that the completely unbiased Washington Bezos does not publish the numbers. An increase in "400%ty!!11!" is "of what?" You had one kid out of a million. Now you have four, no five, no . . . SIX!! out of the same million.

It also does not publish the details. Do this children have other risk factors? Or is this just more scaremongering that YOUR CHILD COULD BE IN THE ICU!!1!!

Now excuse me, I need to find my excluded middle. . . .

– J.D.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

What happens when you vaccinate but the vaccine doesn’t stop the virus from spreading?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... en-viruses


How do we know this won’t happen to humans?

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... ses-072715


We don’t know, but experience says it’s the worst thing you can do
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

By allowing the most deadly versions to multiply and spread, you guarantee the problem will get much worse


For the young
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

It also makes sure every single baby will get jabbed at birth


It’s always about the money
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Oh well. It's clear that I'm out of my depth.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

When you’re out of your depth learn to swim
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

That people who have chosen to get vaccinated are now being cast as disease vectors and are to blame for the increases in infections is extremely discouraging. I've nothing more to say, on this or any other subject.
sparks
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by sparks »

Unvaccinated peeps are far more likely to spread (be a vector) for the damned thing than anyone who's been vaccinated ever will be.
Witness
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Witness »

Seems we already had a NAZI POWER GRAB!!!!!! MUH FREEDOMS!!!!! a century ago:

https://i.imgur.com/4Yg71Ld.jpeg
Doctor X
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Doctor X »

Unless they are White Supremacists, sparts.

– J.D.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Just FYI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson
Attkisson has published stories attempting to link vaccines with autism, a position rejected by the scientific community.[11][12][50] Seth Mnookin, Professor of Science Writing at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, described Attkisson as "one of the least responsible mainstream journalists covering vaccines and autism. Again and again, she's parroted anti-vaccine rhetoric long past the point that it's been decisively disproved."[10]
Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

New info from the CDC:

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status — 13 U.S. Jurisdictions, April 4–July 17, 2021

Bottom line seems to be that vaccines still offer significant protection, even with the Delta variant. However, it does seem to be waning somewhat over time.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

My family member who is in the Pfizer trial did an antibody test, no more antibodies. Pfizer says they can’t do anything until FDA approves, but the booster is just going to be another dose of the same, so they got another dose, local health department, and are still in the trial.

Pfizer protection does not last
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

Pfizer of course never reveals anything.
Doctor X
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Doctor X »

I think we can clearly reject those findings since they give the name of a virus B.1.617.2 as "Delta" rather than "Beta."

– J.D.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Came across a recent example of misleading with statistics. The people doing the misleading may have felt that they were doing it "for a good cause", but I think they ought to know better.

Let's start here with this "fact check" from Politifact:

“Ten thousand people have recently died. 9,950 of them, thereabouts, are people who hadn’t been vaccinated."

Joe Biden made the statement, and Politifact rated it as "mostly true."

It really wasn't, as recent published research from the CDC shows.

But here's what it says in the "fact check":
When we asked the White House for a database or peer-reviewed paper to support the statistic, they did not provide one. Instead, they pointed us to comments made at the White House by Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

During a July 1 White House press briefing, Walensky said . . .

"preliminary data from a collection of states over the last six months suggest 99.5% of deaths from COVID-19 in these states have occurred in unvaccinated people."
So if the statement was made on July 1st, the "last six months" would mean the period going as far back as January 1st of this year, and almost nobody had been vaccinated yet back in early January, but a lot of people were dying and hospitalized because that was during the the worst part of the winter wave, when deaths were peaking. (See, e.g. the graphs on Worldometer). The head of the CDC and the director of the NIH both repeated this figure, and so did Biden. At least the former two must have known better.

Here's how many people in the US had been vaccinated by January 19th:
According to data from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), 4.8% of the U.S. population had received at least one dose of the vaccine through Jan. 19, up from 2.8% a week ago. In total, roughly 15.7 million shots have been administered of the 31.2 million that had been distributed. Just over two million people have received both doses of vaccine.
Less than 5% had even a single dose yet, and only 2 million had had both doses by that point (out of 328 million). I wonder if they start counting people as fully vaccinated as soon as they have their second dose, or 2 weeks later? Because that's supposed to be when you are finally considered to be fully protected: 2 weeks after the final dose.

So why would they make such a statement going as far back as January, when very few people had yet been vaccinated? :notsure:

Were they doing it to make the vaccine seem more effective than it really is? Because using raw numbers like that without controlling for per capita and other factors is effectively putting a huge thumb on the scale, and scientists of all people should know better.

The recent data is much more modest. You can misuse statistics to make a statement that is misleading, and it seems like they did just that. Both the CDC and the NIH. Maybe they believed that they were doing it for a good cause, to encourage more people to get vaccinated, but the fact is that they weren't being honest. They were misusing statistics to create a false implication.
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Regarding this statement:

"...preliminary data from a collection of states over the last six months suggest 99.5% of deaths from COVID-19 in these states have occurred in unvaccinated people."

Walensky cites preliminary data and uses the word suggest. It is common for statements about medical studies to be couched in such terms in order to avoid making absolute assertions, because of the complexities involved. For example, a pharmaceutical company might state "it is believed that the mechanism of action is thus and so" because, as in this situation, absolute knowledge of what is happening at the molecular level is not attainable.

The CDC published this on September 10, 2021:

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status — 13 U.S. Jurisdictions, April 4–July 17, 2021

Of note:
During April 4–July 17, a total of 569,142 (92%) COVID-19 cases, 34,972 (92%) hospitalizations, and 6,132 (91%) COVID-19–associated deaths were reported among persons not fully vaccinated, and 46,312 (8%) cases, 2,976 (8%) hospitalizations, and 616 (9%) deaths were reported among fully vaccinated persons in the 13 jurisdictions (Table). The weekly prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant increased from <1% to 90% during April 4–July 17. Full vaccination coverage increased from 19% to 54%; in the final week, coverage ranged by age group from 45% (in persons aged 18–49 years) to 73% (≥65 years).

During April 4–June 19, fully vaccinated persons accounted for 5% of cases, 7% of hospitalizations, and 8% of deaths overall; these percentages were higher during June 20–July 17 (18%, 14%, and 16%, respectively). Using the reported 37% vaccination coverage for the 13 jurisdictions during April 4–June 19 and an assumption of 90% VE, vaccinated persons would have been expected to account for 6% of cases (close to the 5% observed). With 53% coverage reported during June 20–July 17, vaccinated persons were expected to account for 10% of cases at a constant VE of 90%; the observed 18% would have been expected at a lower VE of 80%.

Averaged weekly, age-standardized rates (events per 100,000 persons) were higher among persons not fully vaccinated than among fully vaccinated persons for reported cases (112.3 versus 10.1), hospitalizations (9.1 versus 0.7), and deaths (1.6 versus 0.1) during April 4–June 19, as well as during June 20–July 17 (89.1 versus 19.4; 7.0 versus 0.7; 1.1 versus 0.1, respectively). Higher hospitalization and death rates were observed in older age groups, regardless of vaccination status, resulting in a larger impact of age-standardization on overall incidence for these outcomes.
Direct link to the table, which is easier to read:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... tm#T1_down

Different persons conducting a statistical analysis will likely calculate different numbers. That is why confirmatory studies are essential.

Statements made in advance of completion of statistical analyses are likely to be subject to revision; statements made by politicians, well...good luck with that. They seem to have extrapolated from the Walensky statement of 99.5% to arrive at a 9,950 death count. Without access to whatever statistics Walensky had at the time doesn't help anything.
Last edited by Pyrrho on Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

The CDC also published two other studies:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e2_w

and

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e3_w

I haven't read those yet, so no comment.

WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... e-studies/
post-skeptic
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by post-skeptic »

Witness wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:29 am Seems we already had a NAZI POWER GRAB!!!!!! MUH FREEDOMS!!!!! a century ago:

https://i.imgur.com/4Yg71Ld.jpeg
Masks were determined to be a greater negative health impact than positive afterwards you fucking retard. They were causing bacterial pneumonia.

This is why nobody listens to you. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, idiot.
Fid
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Fid »

Pyrrho wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:48 pm The CDC also published two other studies:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e2_w

and

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e3_w

I haven't read those yet, so no comment.

WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... e-studies/
Way too many "sciencey" words. ONAN will not be fooled.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Pyrrho wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:40 pm Regarding this statement:

"...preliminary data from a collection of states over the last six months suggest 99.5% of deaths from COVID-19 in these states have occurred in unvaccinated people."

Walensky cites preliminary data and uses the word suggest. It is common for statements about medical studies to be couched in such terms in order to avoid making absolute assertions, because of the complexities involved.
My problem with this statement though is that the period she is talking about includes a couple of months when virtually nobody was fully vaccinated yet, as they define it (at least 2 weeks after the final dose). Further, most of the deaths happened within that time frame (during the winter wave). Deaths have come down a lot since then.

I don't think adding the word "suggest" or "preliminary" is enough to excuse that. Maybe you see it differently, it seems misleading to me to just quote a raw number like that without the context that it includes a time period when almost everybody was still not yet vaccinated.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

post-skeptic wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:46 pm Masks were determined to be a greater negative health impact than positive afterwards you fucking retard. They were causing bacterial pneumonia.

This is why nobody listens to you. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, idiot.
It's a shitpost dude, chill.
Doctor X
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Doctor X »

Do not waste your time with a cowardly sockpuppet who knows he cannot provide evidence for his proclamations, Anax.

– J.D.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Anaxagoras »

Pyrrho wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:48 pm The CDC also published two other studies:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e2_w

and

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e3_w

I haven't read those yet, so no comment.

WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... e-studies/
From the first link:
The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, VE by time since vaccination was not examined; further evaluation of possible waning of vaccine protection is currently underway.
That seems like something to keep an eye on. Does the effectiveness wane over time? And by how much. Presumably they think it does wane, given the talk about boosters that are just the same vaccine.

I'm wondering when there will be a vaccine made available specifically for the Delta variant.
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Anaxagoras wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:50 am
Pyrrho wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:40 pm Regarding this statement:

"...preliminary data from a collection of states over the last six months suggest 99.5% of deaths from COVID-19 in these states have occurred in unvaccinated people."

Walensky cites preliminary data and uses the word suggest. It is common for statements about medical studies to be couched in such terms in order to avoid making absolute assertions, because of the complexities involved.
My problem with this statement though is that the period she is talking about includes a couple of months when virtually nobody was fully vaccinated yet, as they define it (at least 2 weeks after the final dose). Further, most of the deaths happened within that time frame (during the winter wave). Deaths have come down a lot since then.

I don't think adding the word "suggest" or "preliminary" is enough to excuse that. Maybe you see it differently, it seems misleading to me to just quote a raw number like that without the context that it includes a time period when almost everybody was still not yet vaccinated.
It's merely common parlance that bears tangential relation to the facts, which, as you note, are quite different than the statement would indicate.
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

Anaxagoras wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:40 am
Pyrrho wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:48 pm The CDC also published two other studies:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e2_w

and

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7037e3_w

I haven't read those yet, so no comment.

WaPo article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... e-studies/
From the first link:
The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, VE by time since vaccination was not examined; further evaluation of possible waning of vaccine protection is currently underway.
That seems like something to keep an eye on. Does the effectiveness wane over time? And by how much. Presumably they think it does wane, given the talk about boosters that are just the same vaccine.

I'm wondering when there will be a vaccine made available specifically for the Delta variant.
Possibly. Regarding effectiveness, what bits of info I've seen do indicate that effectiveness wanes over time, and that the rate of waning is different among the different vaccines. This article refers to CDC studies--I haven't looked for them yet.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid ... comparison
In August, the CDC also published studies that showed mRNA vaccine protection against infection may be waning, although the vaccines were still highly effective against hospitalization. In one CDC study, data from the state of New York showed vaccine effectiveness dropping from 91.7 to 79.8% against infection, prompting the Biden Administration's recommendation for booster shots.
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

One country is already preparing for the 4th booster

The experimental therapies (they are not vaccines) continue to be tested, sometimes on unwilling people and children
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

Big Brother smiles and counts his money
robinson
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by robinson »

The best part about using a modified virus (the mRNA therapy) is the producers don’t have to deal with the C19 and variants to make the product

The virus they inject isn’t a coronavirus in any way
Pyrrho
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Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Post by Pyrrho »

It's only just begun.
@moderna_tx
Today, we shared positive pre-clinical data demonstrating our ability to combine 6 mRNAs against 3 different respiratory viruses in 1 vaccine: COVID-19 booster + Flu booster + RSV booster.