Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Hot topics in delusion and rationalization.
ed
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Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by ed »

I recall a friend, some years ago, observing that he didn't think that the Pope believed Catholic dogma. I hadn't really thought about it but I tended to agree with him.

The Pope is a highly sophisticated individual who, I suspect, is reasonably smart. I think that it is highly unlikely for him to really believe stuff about the second coming, virgin birth, etc et. I suspect that he might well be an agnostic or, at most, a deist.

Thoughts?
sparks
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by sparks »

Pope who?

--yawn--
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

"Travelling around in a popemobile surrounded by 3 5 inch bulletproof glass - nothing says "faith" more than that."

~ anon
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

Which Pope?

– J.D.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

Not the real one. The other one.
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

He will believe anything.

– J.D.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

He's religious. It goes with the territory.
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

Especially this guy:



– J.D.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

I've known a few priests in my time and by no means do all of them take the bible as "Gospel Truth". Mrs. Camel is quietly religious and sings in a Catholic, (no longer Roman Catholic over here,) church. I rather admire the priest, there: he's got rid of the Holy Mary Mother of God shit, (much to the disgruntlement of some of his congregation,) and is a genuinely good man. He works tirelessly to foster good relationships with the large local Muslim community as well as being involved in numerous charitable endeavors. I don't know him well enough to know what he really believes but I suspect he's very sceptical about much of the miraculous stuff.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

Does he diddle kids?
Anaxagoras
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Anaxagoras »

I've had similar thoughts about not just the Pope but all "men of the cloth". How many of them really believe half the stuff they claim?

In the end I decided that it doesn't really matter. A difference that cannot be measured or proven in some way is not a meaningful difference. Whether they actually believe it or are merely pretending to believe it to keep up appearances makes no difference to me, so I won't waste my time pondering whether they actually believe their own claims or not. I take the claims at face value and examine them on their own merits. The claims are obviously nonsense, whether they believe them or not.
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Anaxagoras »

I once had an experience back when I was in college. I spent a year studying abroad (here in Japan, which was "abroad" for me at the time) and I spent that year studying at a Catholic university in Japan. One of the teachers happened to be a Jesuit priest and he taught a class in natural history.

Half way through the class I became convinced that he knew what the real deal was. So many of the things he taught in the class were obviously incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Bible. At the time, my own understanding of religious thinking wasn't very sophisticated. I didn't yet understand how people could believe two contradictory things at the same time, such as evolution and the Bible. I thought that believing one necessarily implied rejecting the other, as the two views are mutually contradictory. But I was wrong, as became evident when I had a conversation with this priest after class one day. I realized that he truly did buy the whole Catholic dogma, at the same time as teaching the theory of evolution to students.

If you think about it, why would anyone, including the Pope, give up on a normal life and take a vow of chastity if they didn't actually believe all that hokey-pokey? Because they like idea of being a priest even if they know it's all fake? Doesn't seem to ring true to me. At some level they must all buy into it as a general proposition.
ceptimus
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by ceptimus »

For many years, I wrestled with ideas about how obviously intelligent guys could believe (or pretend to believe) in all that self-contradictory and nonsensical shit. I settled on the idea that they fall into two groups.

1) Charlatans that don't believe it, but think pretending to believe it can make people's lives better (including their own lives).
2) Genuine believers. Their brains are wired up differently to ours: they have the ability to believe contradictory things. I think it's more of a disability than an ability, but it seems to work for them.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

Hotarubi wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:16 am Does he diddle kids?
Not unless you consider running a boxing club for deprived inner-city youngsters to be diddling kids, no.
Last edited by asthmatic camel on Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

It always surprises me when scientists say they believe in God. There is, after all, no evidence that one exists.

Still, plenty of them do.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

asthmatic camel wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:46 am
Hotarubi wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:16 am Does he diddle kids?
Not unless you consider running a boxing club for deprived inner-city youngsters to be diddling kids, no.
So he spends alot of time in the ring.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

Hotarubi wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:34 am
asthmatic camel wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:46 am
Hotarubi wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:16 am Does he diddle kids?
Not unless you consider running a boxing club for deprived inner-city youngsters to be diddling kids, no.
So he spends alot of time in the ring.
*SIGH* Yes, he does. Another of his hobbies is ballroom dancing which, no doubt, you will also find highly amusing.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

ceptimus wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:50 am For many years, I wrestled with ideas about how obviously intelligent guys could believe (or pretend to believe) in all that self-contradictory and nonsensical shit. I settled on the idea that they fall into two groups.

1) Charlatans that don't believe it, but think pretending to believe it can make people's lives better (including their own lives).
2) Genuine believers. Their brains are wired up differently to ours: they have the ability to believe contradictory things. I think it's more of a disability than an ability, but it seems to work for them.
I think it goes further than that, ceptimus. Everywhere you go there is some form of established religion, that's been the case throughout recorded history. People seem to have a need to believe that this isn't all there is.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

asthmatic camel wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:47 am Another of his hobbies is ballroom dancing
https://i.ibb.co/Qp8v9J9/Otlile-Mabuse.jpg

I take it all back.
Hotarubi
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Hotarubi »

Just don't let her dance with an Israeli.

Problems there.


(Too obscure? Good.)
Pyrrho
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Pyrrho »

What I need to know is what is the going rate for indulgences these days.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by asthmatic camel »

That, of course, is a very good point, Pyrrho. There's money in religion, big money. One priest I know gets a few funerals done a day and he's loaded.
ed
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by ed »

I suspect some believe it. The less bright ones probably. I suspect the Jesuits are pretty much religious mercenaries. They are paid to "believe" and do so to the outside world.
Pyrrho
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Pyrrho »

I think it all comes down to tribalism. We believe whatever enables us in a given "community." My Dad was a devout and strict Catholic until the church gave him some grief about Grandma's funeral. Then he became a realist.
robinson
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by robinson »

Does the Pope believe his followers are child rapist?

Probably not. Fuck that guy
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

It is a process. . . .

– J.D.
Pyrrho
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Pyrrho »

Dad: "Where you goin'?"

Us: "To confession."

Dad: "Why?"

Us: "So the Father can give us absolution."

Dad, making the sign of the cross: "I'm your father and I grant you absolution. Change the channel, I wanna watch golf."
Anaxagoras
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Speaking of the Pope:

Choosing pets over kids is selfish, Pope Francis says
People who choose to have pets instead of children are acting selfishly, Pope Francis said this week.
  • “Today ... we see a form of selfishness,” Francis said during a discussion on parenthood at the Vatican, per BBC News.
  • “We see that some people do not want to have a child. Sometimes they have one, and that’s it, but they have dogs and cats that take the place of children.
  • “This may make people laugh, but it is a reality.”
  • Francis said getting a pet instead of having a child “is a denial of fatherhood and motherhood and diminishes us, takes away our humanity.”
Does the Pope have any children of his own? No, of course not. He is a Catholic priest (if he does have children, it would be a shameful secret and grounds for defrocking).

What a lack of self-awareness.
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

Because the Church will pay for them. . . .

– J.D.
Pyrrho
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Pyrrho »

"Any motherfucker can be a father." --character I can't remember in some movie the title of which I can't remember either but he was played by Keanu Reeves maybe
Doctor X
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Doctor X »

It was the only good Steve Martin film ever made.

Jason Robbarts . . . Robbards . . . That Guy from The Day After. Amadeus! Ex-Wife of Alexander Delarge!

An electric ear cleaner!

– J. "YOU MADE ME PLAY SECOND BASE!!!" D.
ed
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by ed »

Anaxagoras wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:48 am I once had an experience back when I was in college. I spent a year studying abroad (here in Japan, which was "abroad" for me at the time) and I spent that year studying at a Catholic university in Japan. One of the teachers happened to be a Jesuit priest and he taught a class in natural history.

Half way through the class I became convinced that he knew what the real deal was. So many of the things he taught in the class were obviously incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Bible. At the time, my own understanding of religious thinking wasn't very sophisticated. I didn't yet understand how people could believe two contradictory things at the same time, such as evolution and the Bible. I thought that believing one necessarily implied rejecting the other, as the two views are mutually contradictory. But I was wrong, as became evident when I had a conversation with this priest after class one day. I realized that he truly did buy the whole Catholic dogma, at the same time as teaching the theory of evolution to students.

If you think about it, why would anyone, including the Pope, give up on a normal life and take a vow of chastity if they didn't actually believe all that hokey-pokey? Because they like idea of being a priest even if they know it's all fake? Doesn't seem to ring true to me. At some level they must all buy into it as a general proposition.
Well, some are diddlers and what they are doing is entering supermarket of sorts. Belief does not enter into it.

Others like the promise of power and vows of whatever sort are irrelevant.

You want to talk belief? Talk to the CEO of a consumer goods company and ask about the quality of their products. Rapture. Do they believe? Dunno. But they know how to play the part.

I do not believe that you can ascend the hierarchy of any organization, particularly a large one, without being somewhat cynical. And smart. And manipulative.
Ben Trovado
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Ben Trovado »

Timely subject.

I just wanted to say that I am running for Pope in 2022 as a write-in candidate, and I would appreciate your vote.

And donations - see my onlyfans.
Pyrrho
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Pyrrho »

Does the Pope believe in pizza? That's what really matters.
Ben Trovado
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Re: Does the Pope believe all of the crap?

Post by Ben Trovado »

Pyrrho wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:42 am Does the Pope believe in pizza? That's what really matters.
Absolutely, though we stay away from the "Reformed" Pizzarians. (Pineapple . . . Nuff said).