Trolley problem

Stump your fellow simians.
Pyrrho
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Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

Link: https://twitter.com/aSciEnthusiast/status/1121767925214515201
Last edited by Pyrrho on Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nyarlathotep
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Nyarlathotep »

The Trolley Problem has a very clear solution

gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

Variations on this one eat at me a bit. In the "switch" version I would direct the train towards the fewer number of people with little hesitation. In the "push" version I would probably not push someone into the way. Though, the result is identical, and I have exactly as much control over the outcome in both cases.

I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.
gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

Oh yes--there's room for a MASSIVE false dichotomy. Outside of theoretical scenarios I'm sure it is difficult to be certain that there are no other options, or that any of the proposed options will work out as expected. I'm sure that's why a train is used--there's an image of inevitability that already puts the brain towards thinking inside the box.
gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

Possibly the "prime directive" of any attempt to apply game theory to real-life scenarios is to look for the exploit, or even a cheat. RL has those, possibly more often than games. There are unmodeled factors.
ceptimus
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by ceptimus »

gnome wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.
Throwing the switch, you only commit the minor crime of interfering with the property of the trolley company - and everyone would let you off because you save lives. Pushing the person under the trolley, you commit murder, and even though you still save lives, you're most likely to be subject to a lengthy and stressful trial at the very least.
Rob Lister
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Rob Lister »

gnome wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am Variations on this one eat at me a bit. In the "switch" version I would direct the train towards the fewer number of people with little hesitation. In the "push" version I would probably not push someone into the way. Though, the result is identical, and I have exactly as much control over the outcome in both cases.

I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.
You are the epitome of Chidi Anagonye in The Good Place.
gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

My wife would probably appreciate it if I had his abs.

But maybe I am a little, only actually capable of making a decision.

So am I the white equivalent of the black guy with no "soul"?



0:38
gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

There's that imperative to find a reality-based loophole. Within the purely philosophical construct, that's a cheat though, as much as announcing that you'll put a crash-proof shield on the victims--making assumptions beyond the premise.
Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

Link:
gnome
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by gnome »

ceptimus wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:30 am
gnome wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.
Throwing the switch, you only commit the minor crime of interfering with the property of the trolley company - and everyone would let you off because you save lives. Pushing the person under the trolley, you commit murder, and even though you still save lives, you're most likely to be subject to a lengthy and stressful trial at the very least.
And yet, if I were promised immunity from prosecution or other consequences to myself, I would still struggle over the decision. So I don't think that's it.
ceptimus
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by ceptimus »

Maybe the recurring nightmares about the guy you pushed would haunt you - whereas by doing nothing you can look the other way as the carnage ensues, and think, "I had nothing to do with it." Probably best if you get away from the trolley track before the impact occurs - perhaps there is a little coffee shop you can slip into.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Anaxagoras »



This is kinda cool actually.

A psychological study on real live unsuspecting victims placed in the position of playing God.
Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

https://i.imgur.com/I7GogBY.jpg
Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

https://i.imgur.com/4gXMmS2.jpg
shemp
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by shemp »

Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

https://twitter.com/sinsin08051/status/ ... 5862275075
Hotarubi
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Hotarubi »

Can I have the backgrounds of the people on the tracks?
Ben Trovado
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Ben Trovado »

The one on the left is Robert, a 58 year-old accountant estranged from his adult son over his marriage's collapse 17 years back. Recently, he has begun worrying about his alcohol intake and his thinning hair. He has had to take a loan from his IRA to help his older sister, who broke her hip on some stairs and has no kids of her own any more.

One the left:
Marcy, a 37 year-old district manager from Whole Foods, who thinks that someone within the company is stealing from the stock room.

Rinny - a 19 year-old hoping to get into UCLA on a music scholarship. He has 3 younger siblings and works part-time at a local restaurant to help his mother.

Deighton - 40 year-old heir to the famous Digby Staple fortune, is secretly in love with his accountant, the frankly blond Simone.

Doug and Bob - Metropolitan policemen . . . with a difference.
Hotarubi
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Hotarubi »

Any coldplay fans? It all comes down to that at the end of the day
Doctor X
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Doctor X »

Would anyone bother to tie them to train tracks when beating them with baseball/cricket bats is so much more satisfying?

– J.D.
Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

They are a BDSM group.
Pyrrho
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Pyrrho »

Yes I should be asleep.
Ben Trovado
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Re: Trolley problem

Post by Ben Trovado »

Would a trolley even have the momentum and force to run over multiple people?

Or should we bring a finisher to be sure?