Trolley problem

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:38 am

Link: https://twitter.com/aSciEnthusiast/status/1121767925214515201

Nyarlathotep · Post by **Nyarlathotep** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:25 pm

The Trolley Problem has a very clear solution

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am

Variations on this one eat at me a bit. In the "switch" version I would direct the train towards the fewer number of people with little hesitation. In the "push" version I would probably not push someone into the way. Though, the result is identical, and I have exactly as much control over the outcome in both cases.

I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Sun May 05, 2019 5:43 pm

Oh yes--there's room for a MASSIVE false dichotomy. Outside of theoretical scenarios I'm sure it is difficult to be certain that there are no other options, or that any of the proposed options will work out as expected. I'm sure that's why a train is used--there's an image of inevitability that already puts the brain towards thinking inside the box.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Sun May 05, 2019 5:47 pm

Possibly the "prime directive" of any attempt to apply game theory to real-life scenarios is to look for the exploit, or even a cheat. RL has those, possibly more often than games. There are unmodeled factors.

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:30 am

gnome wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.

Throwing the switch, you only commit the minor crime of interfering with the property of the trolley company - and everyone would let you off because you save lives. Pushing the person under the trolley, you commit murder, and even though you still save lives, you're most likely to be subject to a lengthy and stressful trial at the very least.

Rob Lister · Post by **Rob Lister** » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:22 am

gnome wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am Variations on this one eat at me a bit. In the "switch" version I would direct the train towards the fewer number of people with little hesitation. In the "push" version I would probably not push someone into the way. Though, the result is identical, and I have exactly as much control over the outcome in both cases.

I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.

You are the epitome of Chidi Anagonye in The Good Place.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:57 am

My wife would probably appreciate it if I had his abs.

But maybe I am a little, only actually capable of making a decision.

So am I the white equivalent of the black guy with no "soul"?

0:38

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:39 am

There's that imperative to find a reality-based loophole. Within the purely philosophical construct, that's a cheat though, as much as announcing that you'll put a crash-proof shield on the victims--making assumptions beyond the premise.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:56 am

Link:

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:26 pm

ceptimus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:30 am
gnome wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 am I've really no idea why the distinction is so important to me. For now I just take it as a deconstruction of pure utilitarianism.
Throwing the switch, you only commit the minor crime of interfering with the property of the trolley company - and everyone would let you off because you save lives. Pushing the person under the trolley, you commit murder, and even though you still save lives, you're most likely to be subject to a lengthy and stressful trial at the very least.

And yet, if I were promised immunity from prosecution or other consequences to myself, I would still struggle over the decision. So I don't think that's it.

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:18 pm

Maybe the recurring nightmares about the guy you pushed would haunt you - whereas by doing nothing you can look the other way as the carnage ensues, and think, "I had nothing to do with it." Probably best if you get away from the trolley track before the impact occurs - perhaps there is a little coffee shop you can slip into.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:35 am

This is kinda cool actually.

A psychological study on real live unsuspecting victims placed in the position of playing God.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:14 pm

https://i.imgur.com/I7GogBY.jpg

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:08 pm

https://i.imgur.com/4gXMmS2.jpg

shemp · Post by **shemp** » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:10 pm

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:01 pm

https://twitter.com/sinsin08051/status/ ... 5862275075

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:36 am

Can I have the backgrounds of the people on the tracks?

Ben Trovado · Post by **Ben Trovado** » Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:49 pm

The one on the left is Robert, a 58 year-old accountant estranged from his adult son over his marriage's collapse 17 years back. Recently, he has begun worrying about his alcohol intake and his thinning hair. He has had to take a loan from his IRA to help his older sister, who broke her hip on some stairs and has no kids of her own any more.

One the left:
Marcy, a 37 year-old district manager from Whole Foods, who thinks that someone within the company is stealing from the stock room.

Rinny - a 19 year-old hoping to get into UCLA on a music scholarship. He has 3 younger siblings and works part-time at a local restaurant to help his mother.

Deighton - 40 year-old heir to the famous Digby Staple fortune, is secretly in love with his accountant, the frankly blond Simone.

Doug and Bob - Metropolitan policemen . . . with a difference.

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:01 am

Any coldplay fans? It all comes down to that at the end of the day

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:05 am

Would anyone bother to tie them to train tracks when beating them with baseball/cricket bats is so much more satisfying?

– J.D.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:33 am

They are a BDSM group.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:34 am

Yes I should be asleep.

Ben Trovado · Post by **Ben Trovado** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:52 am

Would a trolley even have the momentum and force to run over multiple people?

Or should we bring a finisher to be sure?

shemp · Post by **shemp** » Wed May 25, 2022 2:09 am

A PASSENGER’S ONE-STAR REVIEW OF THE TROLLEY RIDE FROM THE TROLLEY PROBLEM

Ben Trovado · Post by **Ben Trovado** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:00 am

shemp wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:09 am A PASSENGER’S ONE-STAR REVIEW OF THE TROLLEY RIDE FROM THE TROLLEY PROBLEM

Call me old-fashioned, but I don’t think they should have a lever that allows any old idiot to divert the whole group of us to Westport on a whim.

They have a point.

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:46 am

I was thinking about this the other day

If you throw the switch, but then throw it again while the trolly is only half through the switch

You can derail the trolley

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:48 am

The front truck is going one way and the back truck is on the other line

Problem solved

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:49 am

Unless of course it kills everybody on the trolley

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:49 pm

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 pm

In southern parts of the UK, where electric trains are powered via an electrified third rail, it wouldn't matter much because all those tied to the tracks would already be electrocuted to death, and possibly beginning to smoulder, before the trolley even gets to them.

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:38 pm

ceptimus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:41 pm In southern parts of the UK, where electric trains are powered via an electrified third rail, it wouldn't matter much because all those tied to the tracks would already be electrocuted to death, and possibly beginning to smoulder, before the trolley even gets to them.

Alternatively, on overhead power systems, all the people need to do is buy a ticket for a fucking Virgin train to buy themselves an inordinate amount of time in which to get rescued.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:01 am

So what you are saying is this can only happen in a Fascist regime because . . .

. . .

. . .

. . . the trains run on time?

– J.D.

Ben Trovado · Post by **Ben Trovado** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:39 am

Underappreciated Italian admiration.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:30 am

– J.D.

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:15 pm

robinson wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:48 am The front truck is going one way and the back truck is on the other line

Problem solved

The real problem, as is often the case, is not the one in the question.

In this case the real question, is who tied people to the fucking tracks?

But they don’t want you asking that question, because it gets to the real problem.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:54 am

So has anyone offered a solution of throwing one's self onto the tracks in front of the trolley in order to save the lives of six people?

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:07 am

Pyrrho wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:54 am So has anyone offered a solution of throwing one's self onto the tracks in front of the trolley in order to save the lives of six people?

If that was the case and a human's mass would act as a brake, only the first person in the larger group would die before their meat, bones and entrails would chug up the wheels. So you're still left with the same problem.

One person dies in any scenario. Congrats, you've decided it is you.

Dipshit.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:41 am

But not me, then.

Right! Capital plan!

– J.D.

Ben Trovado · Post by **Ben Trovado** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:44 pm

Let's think outside the box.

What we obviously need are MORE TROLLEYS.