Another poker tournament?

Stump your fellow simians.
swellman
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:43 am

Another poker tournament?

Post by swellman »

Just testing the waters. Anybody want to play another tournament? Better still, anyone want to deal it?

While I've enjoyed dealing this year's poker challenge, doing so takes a lot of time - something that I just won't have next year (big project at work starting up).

RCC was the driving force behind the previous poker sessions, but with his sabbatical we need a high energy someone to lead the charge. Punchdrunk did a great job running the HOP tourney. Perhaps he would be interested in another?

One suggestion: the blind structure should be carefully considered. The one we are using now in the 2006 poker challenge (Big Table) is not steep enough IMHO. Hindsight and all that.
gnome
Posts: 25992
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Post by gnome »

I'm in for playing, but I'd screw up the rules and hold up the game if I tried to deal it.
Bearguin
Posts: 8094
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:26 am
Title: Thankless Bastard!
Location: Get off my fucking lawn

Post by Bearguin »

Unless it can be done a lot quicker, count me out.

The big game has really dragged on too long and I find I'm bored with it (hence my last couple of bets).
swellman
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:43 am

Post by swellman »

Bearguin wrote:Unless it can be done a lot quicker, count me out.

The big game has really dragged on too long and I find I'm bored with it (hence my last couple of bets).
Imagine how the dealer feels!:rimshot:

Just kidding, it's fun to watch the play and learn a bit about the game from this side of the deck. I do confess that the tournament has gone on a bit longer than I had expected.

The blinds simply aren't big enough for the small number of remaining players. Folding marginal hands is the smart thing to do, something that isn't so if the blinds are a sizable slice of one's stack. But that's just how things fell out in this particular tournament.

The game punchdrunk ran was fun, but the blinds were very steep early on. Maybe there's a happy medium between that tournament and the Big Table?
RCC
Posts: 7019
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: Here for now.

Post by RCC »

The latest challenge was sort of meant to be long, the big mistake was that the blinds should have gone up every orbit, regardless of the # of players. This would have made it more reasonable.

For optimal no and pot limit tournaments I suggest 100 with blinds raising every orbit, regardless of the # of players remaining, assuming starting with between 8-12 players.

1-2
2-4
3-6
4-8
6-12
8-16
10-20
15-30
20-40 (end here with 5 starting players)
30-60 (5 to 8)
40-80 (9 to 11)
50-100 (12 to 14)

etc.

This does two things. It advances the blinds more quickly, but caps the blinds at a level where two or three handed play isn't complete and total nonsense, but still forces the play.

The dealer has the option to raise the blinds further if the players seem to be playing like weak-tight wimps and the dealer is sick of it already.
swellman
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:43 am

Post by swellman »

Bumped to generate interest. Anybody want to deal another poker tourney this fall? I won't have the time to deal.

In RCC's suggested blind structure above, I recommend adding an ante of 1 at the 3-6 level, climbing slowly from there. Otherwise the tournament might go 40-50 hands before the blinds really start to cause some pressure.

In the 2006 tournament, Hand 40 started in mid August and Hand 50 was mid Sept! YMMV.
RCC
Posts: 7019
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: Here for now.

Post by RCC »

With the # of hands per level reduced to the # of players left, the blinds are going to force things more quickly. Now at heads up they go up every other hand, which makes the endgame way shorter. Plus the endgame speeds up quite a bit with the blinds going up every 2 or 3 hands.

With an average stack of 100, 3/6 represent 9% of the average stack, which is quite a bit. This is just a bit less than the final round of the 2006 challenge, now reached in 16 hands rather than 70+.


With 8 players the 3/6 blind is reached in a maximum of 16 hands, and the maximum of 32 hands to 6-12 is very unlikely. At 40 hands it will be at least 8-16, probably 10-20, and reasonably even 15-30. So unless players get aggressive early, as they should, 6-12 at 30 is hands should make them drop like flies. If there are less players and a higher chip average, the rounds are shorter.

With 8 players I would be shocked if the entire tournament went 55 hands. Reasonably sure it is over in less than 50, possibly 40. With 10 players make the above to 57 and 53. Based on the minihop, the same # of players as that shouldn't last 32 hands.

(I'm pretty good with tournament structures. The real problem with 2006 was that the blinds should have gone up with the # of players left. I can't go back and calculate but I think the tournament is well over by 70 with that method. We were 5 handed by hand 30. This was round four and probably should have been round 7 already, now with 5 hand rounds. This forces the action, which reduces the players, and we to 5000-10000 probably by hand 60, and that isn't going to last 10 hands)
swellman
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:43 am

Post by swellman »

RCC -

Maybe so. Your experience with tournament poker is certainly far greater than mine. My point is that on a 10 player table with tight play (or sitting out), one could survive through hand 30 only putting in 18 chips. This is certainly an extreme scenario, but one not beyond all possibility.

The only reason I'm making such a fuss is that I feel this last tournament died a death of attrition. Players (and the dealer) simply burned out after 10 months.

Suggest that the next tournament should be designed to be over in a few months to avoid this. Maybe that means tightening up the time limits, using the blind structure as you suggest, and/or limiting the number of players at each starting table to 5-6. Poker by bb seems a different beast than live action.

For reference, I pulled some data from the 2006 Big Table for consideration. Dates given are when the hand started.

Hand 1 12* players 6 Feb 25/50

Hand 10 11 players 15 Apr 25/50

Hand 20 9 players 31 May 50/100

Hand 30 6 players 22 July 75/150

Hand 40 5 players 18 Aug 100/200

Hand 50 4 players 14 Sep 100/200/25

Hand 60 4 players 10 Oct 150/300/25

Hand 70 3 players 30 Oct 200/400/50

Hand 74 2 players 3 Nov 300/600/75

*One of the starting players never posted a move and was dropped after 3 hands.


The first 9 hands on an 11-player table averaged about 1 week/hand. The next 10 hands got quite a bit faster (~4.5 days/hand). I suspect these rates of play are typical for a bb style poker game, but I didn't go back to the older tournaments.

One other idea I'll throw out - occasional "live chat" format, i.e. all remaining players and the dealer log on to SC at a scheduled time to play a few hands in (near) real time. Of course, this may not be possible with a large swath of time zones and RL constraints.

Anyway, I would love to play in another tournament, using whatever format is decided. Please take my comments in the spirit they are intended. :HoppingMad: :HoppingMad2: :P :D