We're all really alike....really!

Get their minds right...for their own good.
clarsct
Posts: 5872
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:30 am

We're all really alike....really!

Post by clarsct »

Seems that some Xians have a thing about all cultures having a belief in some higher power...

Well, turns out that humans are, more or less, the same everywhere...
http://www.temple.edu/tempress/titles/864_reg.html

In over 400 ways, really. So why is this fairy tale stuff important or unique...it isn't.


It's just more bullshit.
clarsct
Posts: 5872
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:30 am

Re: We're all really alike....really!

Post by clarsct »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
clarsct wrote:In over 400 ways, really. So why is this fairy tale stuff important or unique...it isn't.


It's just more bullshit.
Unique? No.

Important? Maybe it's a survival trait in some way?
A 'God gene'?


Would be interesting.....if true.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

A tendency to believe in invisible agents. Because predators are good at making themselves invisible, so those capable of entertaining such notions are better able to avoid becoming lion lunch than those who only fear threats they can see. The waste of energy running screaming through the woods every time one steps on a branch and hears a crunch and has an automatic "eerie" feeling is apparently not bad enough to cancel out the benefit of occasionally being right and thus living longer and having a greater tendency to reproduce.

That'd be a plausible-sounding answer from anthropology.
Luke T.
Posts: 27094
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Nowhere near Pakistan

Post by Luke T. »

Do wild animals believe in a higher power? Yet they react to a cracked branch and have survived quite well. The two are not connected.

We have far more intellectual capacity than is necessary for mere survival. We have imagination. And that needs to be fed or it turns on itself.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

I'm agnostic about the continuum hypothesis.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Luke T. wrote:Do wild animals believe in a higher power?
There is no way to know the answer to that question.
Actually, the question itself might be incoherent.
En folkefiende
Posts: 17511
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:38 am
Location: Waiting for an electrician

Post by En folkefiende »

Humans want to "understand". Absent physics, chemistry and mathematics, a "higher power" sounds like a good explaination.

But we've outgrown it, and we need to get over our primitive selves.
clarsct
Posts: 5872
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:30 am

Post by clarsct »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Now that I think of it, Luke may be onto something, but from the wrong direction.

Why suppose imagination isn't survival trait?
Ok, to go back to Luke a little, how is imagination a survival trait?
In what ways do we enjoy an advantage?
Luke T.
Posts: 27094
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Nowhere near Pakistan

Post by Luke T. »

Why evolve?

If it is just about survival, what is the problem with being a single cell on a deep sea volcano vent? Huh? Moving on up to the east side. Yeah. I'm onto you.

The answer is overengineering. The first organisms wouldn't have come into existence unless things were overengineered. And that same overengineering caused things to just keep going and going once they got started. We don't evolve because we want to. We evolve because we can't help it. It would be a helluva trick turning it off.

And now we have more going for us than we need to survive. Now we have leisure time. Time enough to make shit up.

Shit! What's that noise? I've eaten everything that moves for a two mile radius.

Who threw that lightning bolt?

I want answers. Whoever gives me the best answer, I want to keep around. He gets to share my kill.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

clarsct wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Now that I think of it, Luke may be onto something, but from the wrong direction.

Why suppose imagination isn't survival trait?
Ok, to go back to Luke a little, how is imagination a survival trait?
In what ways do we enjoy an advantage?
The ability to evade predators that we haven't spotted yet, by only imaging that they might be creeping up behind us. The ability to plan future actions like agriculture or, even before agriculture, going back next spring to where the wild blueberries were last spring. Lots of things. Imagination and subjunctive thinking are really the same thing.
Luke T.
Posts: 27094
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Nowhere near Pakistan

Post by Luke T. »

DrMatt wrote:
clarsct wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Now that I think of it, Luke may be onto something, but from the wrong direction.

Why suppose imagination isn't survival trait?
Ok, to go back to Luke a little, how is imagination a survival trait?
In what ways do we enjoy an advantage?
The ability to evade predators that we haven't spotted yet, by only imaging that they might be creeping up behind us. The ability to plan future actions like agriculture or, even before agriculture, going back next spring to where the wild blueberries were last spring.
Birds do that. Nothing special.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

Luke T. wrote:
DrMatt wrote:
clarsct wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Now that I think of it, Luke may be onto something, but from the wrong direction.

Why suppose imagination isn't survival trait?
Ok, to go back to Luke a little, how is imagination a survival trait?
In what ways do we enjoy an advantage?
The ability to evade predators that we haven't spotted yet, by only imaging that they might be creeping up behind us. The ability to plan future actions like agriculture or, even before agriculture, going back next spring to where the wild blueberries were last spring.
Birds do that. Nothing special.
But we are not birds. And birds don't do adaptive agriculture.
gnome
Posts: 25992
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Post by gnome »

Now he's having a go at the birds!
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

gnome wrote:Now he's having a go at the birds!
Charley's 'ad 'em
sparks
Posts: 17630
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Post by sparks »

Luke T. wrote:Why evolve?

If it is just about survival, what is the problem with being a single cell on a deep sea volcano vent? Huh? Moving on up to the east side. Yeah. I'm onto you.

The answer is overengineering. The first organisms wouldn't have come into existence unless things were overengineered. And that same overengineering caused things to just keep going and going once they got started. We don't evolve because we want to. We evolve because we can't help it. It would be a helluva trick turning it off.

And now we have more going for us than we need to survive. Now we have leisure time. Time enough to make shit up.

Shit! What's that noise? I've eaten everything that moves for a two mile radius.

Who threw that lightning bolt?

I want answers. Whoever gives me the best answer, I want to keep around. He gets to share my kill.
Engineering implies an engineer. We are simply the result of what chemicals can do given 5 billion years.

Ain't it grand? :D
Tiosylanyl
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:31 am
Title: The Three-eyed Raven
Location: Beyond the Wall

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Luke T. wrote: And now we have more going for us than we need to survive. Now we have leisure time. Time enough to make shit up.
Not sure I fully agree that this was the sole source of human imagination. I don't know if that was what you were implying, but I think that building tools to aid in survival also qualifies as the use of imagination.
SamanthaMc
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:31 pm

Post by SamanthaMc »

Luke T. wrote: And now we have more going for us than we need to survive. Now we have leisure time. Time enough to make shit up.
I have a pet hypothesis that there is a direct relationship between leisure time and depression. If we were busy doing manual labor for 12+ hours a day just to fight for basic survival, we would be too tired to be depressed.
DrMatt
Posts: 29811
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Location: Location!

Post by DrMatt »

SamanthaMc wrote:
Luke T. wrote: And now we have more going for us than we need to survive. Now we have leisure time. Time enough to make shit up.
I have a pet hypothesis that there is a direct relationship between leisure time and depression. If we were busy doing manual labor for 12+ hours a day just to fight for basic survival, we would be too tired to be depressed.
Or how about a link between antidepressants and depression--at the population level? Without antidepressants, folks who are genetically prone to depression might be genetically prone to not have kids...
SamanthaMc
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:31 pm

Post by SamanthaMc »

DrMatt wrote: Or how about a link between antidepressants and depression--at the population level? Without antidepressants, folks who are genetically prone to depression might be genetically prone to not have kids...
Because they would kill themselves first or because they would be too depressed to have sex? Actually, most antidepressants have an adverse effect on one's sex life: lowered libido, delayed or absent orgasm, even erectile dysfunction. Fun.