The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

We are the Borg.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29660
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by Anaxagoras »

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 91209.html
Steven Chu, the US Secretary of Energy and a Nobel prize-winning scientist, said yesterday that making roofs and pavements white or light-coloured would help to reduce global warming by both conserving energy and reflecting sunlight back into space. It would, he said, be the equivalent of taking all the cars in the world off the road for 11 years.
. . .
"If that building is air-conditioned, it's going to be a lot cooler, it can use 10 or 15 per cent less electricity," he said. "You also do something in that you change the albedo of the Earth – you make it more reflective. So the sunlight comes down and it actually goes back up – there is no greenhouse effect," Dr Chu said.

When sunlight is reflected off a white or light-coloured surface much of that light will pass through the atmosphere and back into space, unlike the infrared radiation emitted from the Earth's warmed-up surface, which is blocked by greenhouse gases and causes global warming. "What we're doing is that, as we put in more greenhouse gases, we're putting in more insulation for infrared light. So if you make white roofs and the sunlight comes in, it goes right through that [insulation]," said Dr Chu.
Is this idea too much like "make sure your tires are properly inflated"?
It's too simple and low-tech. And there's a collective action problem. But, it's maybe more realistic than reducing fossil fuels. It could be a piece of the puzzle.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

It doesn't sound very practical. Who's going to paint (and repaint) all the pavements and rooves? Who's going to pay for it? How much environmental damage would be caused by producing that amount of paint? Plus, it would look dreadful, certainly in Britland.

Dumb idea.
Doctor X
Posts: 75268
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Post by Doctor X »

It will show dirt.

--J.D.
JEROME DA GNOME
Posts: 5231
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:13 am

Post by JEROME DA GNOME »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The idea is to get you used to jumping through hoops (to prove your heart is pure).

If only Al Gore had been president instead of Mister Smoothie. The current global cooling trend would be evidences he was right. Instead of a stupid irrelevancy mentioned only by evil deniers.

:D :D :D
ed
Posts: 41470
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Post by ed »

And what are the unintended consequences of increasing the Earth's albedo?
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

asthmatic camel wrote:It doesn't sound very practical. Who's going to paint (and repaint) all the pavements and rooves? Who's going to pay for it? How much environmental damage would be caused by producing that amount of paint? Plus, it would look dreadful, certainly in Britland.

Dumb idea.
You don't pave them. They go white on their own. Super cheap solution.

Though seriously, I think Chu meant that when we repave them (preferably during maintenance), we use a lighter colored mixture. And if he's thinking what I'm think he's thinking, he already knows what to materials to put down that are in the cost range of using garden variety asphalt.
Major Malfunction
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:16 am

Post by Major Malfunction »

I prefer my mirror-polished, chrome-plated roof.

Gives me something to do on weekends.
Bearguin
Posts: 8094
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:26 am
Title: Thankless Bastard!
Location: Get off my fucking lawn

Post by Bearguin »

I'd rather see solar panels on the roofs.

But that's just because I work for a company that makes and installs solar panels. :)

But they aren't cost effective on a small scale at this point. Payback is worse than buying a hybrid.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

Mentat, I've some experience in the landscaping game and can assure you that anything white is costly to maintain, (unless you want surfaces to look as though they're made from three day old, half-melted snow full of dog turds and other crap.)

Even if the original material used was white, you'd need an army of blokes with high-powered jet washers to keep it that way.

Still dumb.
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

asthmatic camel wrote:Mentat, I've some experience in the landscaping game and can assure you that anything white is costly to maintain, (unless you want surfaces to look as though they're made from three day old, half-melted snow full of dog turds and other crap.)

Even if the original material used was white, you'd need an army of blokes with high-powered jet washers to keep it that way.

Still dumb.
You don't need it to be white-white. If the bulk material itself is light, and it will wear down, then I wouldn't fret over it too much. I don't think anybody would care if it was pure white; the standards don't have to be up to what somebody wants a house to look like. Roofs, ah, maybe.

Now painting the roads white would be just plain dumb. But I don't think that's what's being done.
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Post by robinson »

A white road? Wouldn't that make it easy to see objects on them at night? Or in the rain? Shucks, it would make it easy to see the road itself, especially at night.

Some roads in Florida are sort of white, they are made from concrete. It isn't really white, but light colored, and the lines are dark. The problem with concrete roads is they last forever, and resist potholes. Some of the sections of concrete roads have never had to be worked on, they never get repaved or anything that slows traffic and costs a lot of money.

If you paint roofs with a white elastomeric coating (they do this in Florida as well, mostly trailers and awning roofs), it reflects sunlight, and it water proofs the roof. The problem with doing this, is you can do this over and over, meaning you don't ever have to replace the roof. And it won't leak. And it is relatively cheap compared to replacing or fixing a roof.

There are many problems with this idea of reflecting heat from roofs and roads.
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Post by robinson »

The biggest problem will be that the roofs are white. Nobody wants to look at a white roof. Black and grey are much prettier than white, and a white roof will show dirt and leaves on it.

Same for roads. You will see an oil or dirt on the road if it is white. The concrete roads have this dirty oily strip in the middle where oil leaks from vehicles. You can see it! Horrible.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

Bearguin, do you have any idea if progress is being made with solar panel technology? Here, they generally haven't paid for themselves by the time they need replacing, and I'm fairly sure that the environmetal damage caused by producing them is fairly high.

Oh, and Mentat, people really do give a shit about the way their local neighbourhood looks. We have an absolute mountain of regulations regarding what you are and are not allowed to do with your property.
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

I'm not talking about roofs.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

Mentat wrote:I'm not talking about roofs.
Nor am I.
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

asthmatic camel wrote:
Mentat wrote:I'm not talking about roofs.
Nor am I.
Well, then that's settled.
ed
Posts: 41470
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Post by ed »

http://seo2.0.onreact.com/wp-content/up ... at-seo.jpg

Does this make me like an environmentalist or something?
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

No, it makes you look like a vain twat who's photoshopped the lard out of his face, dyed his hair black and painted on a fake moustache and eyebrows with his wife's mascara.

:D
Last edited by asthmatic camel on Thu May 28, 2009 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

Mentat wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote:
Mentat wrote:I'm not talking about roofs.
Nor am I.
Well, then that's settled.
Honestly, we really do have strict laws regarding the way any development, public or domestic, affects the appearance of an area, sometimes to a silly extent. Brits enjoy a good moan about trivial bullshit.

White tarmac would cause riots.
En folkefiende
Posts: 17511
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:38 am
Location: Waiting for an electrician

Post by En folkefiende »

asthmatic camel wrote: White tarmac would cause riots.
So, then it would become an offense to hit your brakes, because it would leave a black stripe.

So we have to have all-white tires.

So tire companies have to figure out how to build durable tires without carbon black in the rubber.

This means more toxic chemicals.

...


:p
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

asthmatic camel wrote:
Mentat wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote:
Mentat wrote:I'm not talking about roofs.
Nor am I.
Well, then that's settled.
Honestly, we really do have strict laws regarding the way any development, public or domestic, affects the appearance of an area, sometimes to a silly extent. Brits enjoy a good moan about trivial bullshit.

White tarmac would cause riots.
Aye. But this guy is talking about making lighter roads. I'm sure the Federal gov would work with local authorities over such laws. I highly doubt there would be a proclamation to have all white roads, and then have it illegal to lay down the materials that are necessary (so long as it isn't more harmful environmentally than the usual stuff).
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

jj wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote: White tarmac would cause riots.
So, then it would become an offense to hit your brakes, because it would leave a black stripe.

So we have to have all-white tires.

So tire companies have to figure out how to build durable tires without carbon black in the rubber.

This means more toxic chemicals.

...


:p
Just take apart that Michelin dude and use him as a tire set. :P
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

jj, why do you think most roads and pavements, (here, at least) are covered with black tarmac?

Because it's mostly made from by-products of the oil industry, readily available stone chippings, often recycled, and costs bugger all to produce, that's why.

Cement based flags look pretty good, as do those made from stone. Traditional cobbles are nice, too; all are of the white persuasion. Want me to give you a price to create a driveway using them?

Don't even ask unless you're very, very wealthy.

:P
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18

Post by Mentat »

Can you even crown a cement road? I just noticed that I haven't seen one like that.
En folkefiende
Posts: 17511
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:38 am
Location: Waiting for an electrician

Post by En folkefiende »

asthmatic camel wrote:jj, why do you think most roads and pavements, (here, at least) are covered with black tarmac?

Because it's mostly made from by-products of the oil industry, readily available stone chippings, often recycled, and costs bugger all to produce, that's why.

Cement based flags look pretty good, as do those made from stone. Traditional cobbles are nice, too; all are of the white persuasion. Want me to give you a price to create a driveway using them?

Don't even ask unless you're very, very wealthy.

:P
And blacktop is smoother than flagstones and bricks. I know. I used to live in a town with an old WPA-era "viaduct" across a river, that was brick (bumpitybumpbumpthud) paved.
asthmatic camel
Posts: 20062
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
Title: Forum commie nun.
Location: Stirring the porridge with my spurtle.

Post by asthmatic camel »

Mentat wrote:Can you even crown a cement road? I just noticed that I haven't seen one like that.
It's not a job I've ever done but, I believe it's entirely possible to lay tarmac over concrete as long as the concrete is thoroughly pulverised and levelled before you begin.
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

White parking lots would be a huge reduction in the UHI effect. Trees would be nice too, but business owners don't actually like trees in parking lots. Leaves, branches and liability issue. Even so, everybody wants to park under what trees there may be. Because its fucking way cooler.

FYI since this topic I painted two roofs white. The one in NOVA has since been re-shingled (not white), because people don't like white roofs.
white roof pegged.jpg
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

The one in Florida will eventually be redone, and not with white shingles

Most people really don't give a shit about keeping things cool
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by Rob Lister »

Black Roofs Matter.

https://i.imgur.com/sNR61OJ.jpg
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

White roofs are racist
sparks
Posts: 17370
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by sparks »

c32de56ba83d8d6cc3be1d89a914d095.jpg
Black wives matter.

Do I get extra points for sexist and racist at the same time? :)
robinson2
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 4:02 pm
Title: I can’t be worrying about that

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson2 »

Yes

You win the internet
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by Rob Lister »

Prepare yourself for my new solar thread. It's coming.
sparks
Posts: 17370
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by sparks »

BTW, Robinson is white on the wrong side. All trolls are white on the wrong side!
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re:

Post by robinson »

En folkefiende wrote: Thu May 28, 2009 5:00 pm
asthmatic camel wrote: White tarmac would cause riots.
So, then it would become an offense to hit your brakes, because it would leave a black stripe.

So we have to have all-white tires.

So tire companies have to figure out how to build durable tires without carbon black in the rubber.

This means more toxic chemicals.

...


:p
I just realized jj changed his user name, and he was a goddamn prophet

I also just realized he left in 2013 and happened in this topic, and even with all the missing posts it was possible to figure it out.
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

Damn

“I missed all the drama!”

Said no sane person

Ever
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

robinson wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:53 pm White parking lots would be a huge reduction in the UHI effect. Trees would be nice too, but business owners don't actually like trees in parking lots. Leaves, branches and liability issue. Even so, everybody wants to park under what trees there may be. Because its fucking way cooler.

FYI since this topic I painted two roofs white. The one in NOVA has since been re-shingled (not white), because people don't like white roofs.
The past is a foreign country
ed
Posts: 41470
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: G_D

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by ed »

robinson wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:53 pm White parking lots would be a huge reduction in the UHI effect. Trees would be nice too, but business owners don't actually like trees in parking lots. Leaves, branches and liability issue. Even so, everybody wants to park under what trees there may be. Because its fucking way cooler.

FYI since this topic I painted two roofs white. The one in NOVA has since been re-shingled (not white), because people don't like white roofs. white roof pegged.jpg
Just put on a metal roof, shiny. Reflects everything. Probably contributes to global warming.

Why do people in warm climes have dark skin? Wouldn't that contribute to melanomas and thus be selected out? Should black people be forced to paint themselves white?
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

Dark skin prevents UV damage
robinson
Posts: 16834
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Sardonic asshole
Location: USA

Re: The White Roof Solution to Global Warming

Post by robinson »

“The devil is God when he is drunk”