The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

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Doctor X
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The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Keeping a list of potential tweaks. I have wanted to add some bit of prop betting--like betting how many coaches get fired. So here be a place to make suggestions.

ThiosyanlysomethingMordre(a)d: Prediction of the number of head coaches that are fired at the end of the regular season (and prior to the end of the Super Bowl) awards X amount of points, with predictions made at the start of the season.

I kind of like that. But I am also thinking of a bonus. If you own a team who gets a coach fired you get X points--maybe 2-5. You also get more if the GM gets fired. This means owning a suck team may pay off.

His Humble MagNIfIcence: That Didn't Happen--each player gets one "do over." You made a bad pick. I am thinking a player can either 1)Pick a different loser at a different time slot 2)Can post a primary and secondary pick.

That one intrigues me. I want to make sure it is not abused.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Captain »

Any man breaks that rule spends a night in the box.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:Keeping a list of potential tweaks. I have wanted to add some bit of prop betting--like betting how many coaches get fired. So here be a place to make suggestions.

ThiosyanlysomethingMordre(a)d: Prediction of the number of head coaches that are fired at the end of the regular season (and prior to the end of the Super Bowl) awards X amount of points, with predictions made at the start of the season.

I kind of like that. But I am also thinking of a bonus. If you own a team who gets a coach fired you get X points--maybe 2-5. You also get more if the GM gets fired. This means owning a suck team may pay off.
Another possible avenue is to pick a team to come in dead last at the beginning of the season or, say, by week 5 to lock in their pick, for X number of points. In other words, not a weekly pick to "own" the team but, rather, a bonus point pick similar to the coach firing suggestion. Think about it...at the beginning of this season Houston was pegged as a Super Bowl contender and most talking heads swore that Jacksonville wouldn't win a game.
Doctor X wrote: His Humble MagNIfIcence: That Didn't Happen--each player gets one "do over." You made a bad pick. I am thinking a player can either 1)Pick a different loser at a different time slot 2)Can post a primary and secondary pick.

That one intrigues me. I want to make sure it is not abused.
I'm not sure how it could be abused if everyone only gets an opportunity to use it once. I'd suggest that if you do it, that a person can only call for its use once. As an example, both picks should be made at one time. If the primary pick wins, then you get a shot at the secondary team losing. If the primary team loses, then that's the team you get regardless of what the secondary team does. In the latter scenario you would have used your "do over" even though you didn't need it simply because you called for it.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Regarding the "do over" let us say I pick Cleveland to lose against . . . any team. Can then either declare at the time my "2nd Choice" is for Seattle to lose OR I can pick another team provided the game has not started.

If Cleveland loses that is the team I get. My only fear is that I could keep doing this until I lose my first pick. I have to think about that/get other opinions.

Now if Cleveland WINS--stop laughing!--then whether or not my "2nd Choice" wins or loses, that is it!

As for Pick the Loser that could be a prop bet in the beginning.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:Regarding the "do over" let us say I pick Cleveland to lose against . . . any team. Can then either declare at the time my "2nd Choice" is for Seattle to lose OR I can pick another team provided the game has not started.

If Cleveland loses that is the team I get. My only fear is that I could keep doing this until I lose my first pick. I have to think about that/get other opinions.

Now if Cleveland WINS--stop laughing!--then whether or not my "2nd Choice" wins or loses, that is it!
That's why I'm suggesting that it be a one time only use, whether you benefit from it or not.

Now, you could have someone picking Cleveland for the early game and when that team wins, jumping on here to use their mulligan for one of the later games. Fine.

In a situation where, say, someone knows they won't be able to log in between early and late games OR wants to pick two teams playing at the same time (designating one as primary), I'm saying that if they choose to make a primary and secondary pick, they will burn their mulligan regardless of the outcome.

In other words:

Scenario 1
Primary: Cleveland (wins)
Secondary: Seattle (wins or loses)
Outcome: mulligan is burned, and player picks up Seattle provided they lose. If Seattle wins the player gets nothing.

Scenario 2
Primary: Cleveland (loses)
Secondary: Seattle (wins or loses)
Outcome: mulligan is burned, and player picks up Cleveland.

This puts a limitation on the "didn't happen" rule, but gives the player the flexibility to use it for teams playing at the same time rather than being limited to whichever teams are available in the late games.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Tiosylanyl wrote:In other words:

Scenario 1
Primary: Cleveland (wins)
Secondary: Seattle (wins or loses)
Outcome: mulligan is burned, and player picks up Seattle provided they lose. If Seattle wins the player gets nothing.
Exactly!
Scenario 2
Primary: Cleveland (loses)
Secondary: Seattle (wins or loses)
Outcome: mulligan is burned, and player picks up Cleveland.
I was thinking about that. That might force people to "be there" to make their second pick. Not everyone has that ability what with family, jobs, and various sexual improprieties. That may not be "fair" to someone who cannot be online during the games. I am not sure I want the "mulligan" burned.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by grayman »

How about picking the first team to have a player say or do something controversial? Three parts: pre-season, regular, and post season.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Pyrrho »

I'm not sure the "That never happened!" concept can be applied equally. It makes sense if you pick the Browns to lose against the Patriots and the Patriots manage to lose by 30 points. It doesn't make as much sense for evenly-matched teams. You could easily end up with people making two picks every week, in which case the Tiosylanyl Scenario 1 option makes more sense. I think you would have to erase the mulligan or limit it to one mulligan per season.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Pyrrho wrote:I'm not sure the "That never happened!" concept can be applied equally. It makes sense if you pick the Browns to lose against the Patriots and the Patriots manage to lose by 30 points. It doesn't make as much sense for evenly-matched teams. You could easily end up with people making two picks every week, in which case the Tiosylanyl Scenario 1 option makes more sense. I think you would have to erase the mulligan or limit it to one mulligan per season.
Limiting it to one per season was what I was going for. I'm not sure where the misunderstanding of that came in.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Well, it depends on whether or not one wants to "keep it" if you do not end up using it. Sure, someone could make "two picks a week" until it gets used, but then that is rather like picking low hanging fruit.

Problem with "controversial," grayman, is what defines "controversial?" Does a player who walked off the squad--Miami--count? What about a former player--Minnesota?

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:Well, it depends on whether or not one wants to "keep it" if you do not end up using it. Sure, someone could make "two picks a week" until it gets used, but then that is rather like picking low hanging fruit.
I wasn't suggesting that someone could make two picks every week until it gets used. Not at all. I was suggesting that someone could use their mulligan to make two picks before any games start, one as primary (Cleveland), one as secondary (Seattle). If Cleveland loses, the player gets Cleveland REGARDLESS of how the Seattle the game turns out. If Cleveland wins, then the player has a chance to pick up Seattle depending on whether or not Seattle loses. In either case, the player's one and only mulligan is still used and they cannot do it again for the rest of the season. If anything, they risk losing the advantage of the mulligan by doing this.

There are two advantages:

1. Players can use the mulligan and make two picks in advance, especially if they know they won't have an opportunity to log in and use the mulligan prior to the start of the late games.

2. They can pick two teams playing at the same time, again, with the caveat that they need to pick one as primary. This opens up more options for teams to pick.

The one possible exploit I can see with this is that someone could try using the mulligan to pick two teams playing each other, guaranteeing that they get one of the two teams. That said, it would be easy to make the rule that one cannot pick two teams playing one another in a given week.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Tiosylanyl wrote:I wasn't suggesting that someone could make two picks every week until it gets used. Not at all. I was suggesting that someone could use their mulligan to make two picks before any games start, one as primary (Cleveland), one as secondary (Seattle). If Cleveland loses, the player gets Cleveland REGARDLESS of how the Seattle the game turns out. If Cleveland wins, then the player has a chance to pick up Seattle depending on whether or not Seattle loses. In either case, the player's one and only mulligan is still used and they cannot do it again for the rest of the season. If anything, they risk losing the advantage of the mulligan by doing this.
No, that is how I thought you were putting it: you use your "mulligan" you lose your mulligan no matter what the outcome. I am not totally against that concept. My concern is it favors couch potatoes who can sit, watch how their game is going, then declare a mulligan. We have a real example: everyone who picked NE to lose to Denver. For the first half, awesome. Now the only ones who could play the "mulligan" would have been those players actively watching the game OR who just were worried about Denver losing and declared it before-hand.

Anyways, let us see what the peasants think.
The one possible exploit I can see with this is that someone could try using the mulligan to pick two teams playing each other, guaranteeing that they get one of the two teams. That said, it would be easy to make the rule that one cannot pick two teams playing one another in a given week.
I also thought of that. Originally, I was going to suggest that you had to either declare one for a later game and/or declare it during your game. See my problem with forcing players to "sit" watching games. Not everyone can do that every week.

I may very well consider that--force it to be a later game so you cannot just pick both teams to lose. I see the temptation: I would like to pick both the Eagles and NO to lose because who the fuck knows which team will show up to play?

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Okay, I was thinking maybe I wasn't explaining it effectively.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

There are a couple of possibilities. A player who is a Squealers fan has an intriguing idea. I have asked him to e-mail me so I do not get it wrong. One of the scenarios we were thinking of is NE-Denver at NE and, say, Seattle-SF at SF. Whom do you pick? If you have saved your Mulligan, then you may be guaranteed points . . . unless you pick completely wrong on both!

Now if you risk losing your Mulligan if your first team "wins by losing" that puts a lot of risk. His is more complicated so I will let him write it up.

He also liked the idea of getting points for loss of a coach. ACTUALLY, this year would have been fantastic since a team fired their coach during the season--say 3-5 points--THEN fired the interim coach on Black Monday--say 2 points. I would have no problem with a dude getting that for that case. I am thinking something like:
  • Coach/GM fired before Week 8: 3-5
    Coach/GM fired by Black Friday--or that Week: 2-4
and rather than PICK the coach I would suggest you have to have the team before hand. That may allow an incentive to pick up bottom feeders.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:He also liked the idea of getting points for loss of a coach. ACTUALLY, this year would have been fantastic since a team fired their coach during the season--say 3-5 points--THEN fired the interim coach on Black Monday--say 2 points. I would have no problem with a dude getting that for that case. I am thinking something like:
  • Coach/GM fired before Week 8: 3-5
    Coach/GM fired by Black Friday--or that Week: 2-4
and rather than PICK the coach I would suggest you have to have the team before hand. That may allow an incentive to pick up bottom feeders.
I rather like that idea rather than my original suggestion, though I think it's a bit more complex to maintain. I would suggest the following tweaks though:

1. Keep it to head coaches.
2. If the coach is fired during the regular season 3-5 points
3. If the coach is fired between the conclusion of week 17 and the Super Bowl 2-4 points
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Other suggestions to make bottom feeders more attractive is to award X points for the following:

1. Owning the team with the worst total offense (in yards) through week 17.
2. Owning the team with the worst total defense (in yards allowed) through week 17.
3. Owning the team with the fewest total points scored through week 17.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

http://i.qkme.me/3r4ra9.jpg

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/ ... 72ca6d.jpg
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

By the way, what is a Thrad?
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

A common misspelling done by t3h k00l kidz of the intert00bez.




N00B!!!11!!

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/ ... 6c0ffc.jpg
Clearly.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire3 ... 9_full.gif
--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/ ... cb05da.jpg
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4 ... 3_full.jpg

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Radrick wrote:Mulligan. You pick a team to lose, but not real confident. So you choose to use your mulligan. You choose a alternate team. At the half your 1st pick is winning. Your mulligan kicks in and at the half your alternate pick is now your pick regardless of the score of alternate pick. Your alternate pick can be the opposing team in your 1st choice or a completely different team.
Having talked with him the idea is to introduce risk to the Mulligan. His example was NE-Denver--say you picked Denver to lose but declare a "mulligan" of . . . I do not know . . . the Pirates against the Cubs. Since Indy is beating NE by 24 points at the half you default to your "mulligan." Whether or not your Mulligan "wins" you do not get "back" Denver.

Or: Doctor X Extra Greedy Bonus: everyone gets, once, a second pick. Yes, you can pick both teams of one team to guarantee points--unless there is a tie! We pick losers, not tiers! Or a riskier player could pick the NE-Denver and SF-Sea games . . . if he "wins" he could get like 24 points rather than 13 . . . or he could get nothing. Obviously that is a one-time. I can add a ⎙ or something to the players and remove when it is taken.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Is his suggestion taking my original premise, but introducing a way to deal with the couchpotatoeswithoutanythngbettertodo that you mentioned earlier?
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Sort of. I mentioned what you wrote. He would like to keep an element of risk.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by gnome »

You mentioned once... and I think it has merit... to have the previous year's champion be able to name the team the Meanie Points center around.

I would ask for tradition's sake that it still be named the ExtraEvidencesDr.XMeaniebonus and Doctor X is a MEANIE Point bonuses.

If we implement that, what of the DoNotJudgeOthersbyYourStandardsCHARLEY_BIGTIMEbonus rule, however?
Last edited by gnome on Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by gnome »

Some other random ideas, may be fun, may be dumb:

In the rain bonus: if someone earns points for a game, they get +1 point if it rained at the location of the field during the game. (that way covered stadiums aren't immune).

or, some other reason to give +1 having nothing to do with actual rain. I just like the name of the rule.

Friendship and Ponies bonus: I'm not sure what "n" should be set at, but +2 for owning a team that starts the season at 0-n (losing streak) but makes it to the playoffs anyway. "They could still make it!!!!" should be the idea here. How many games can you lose and still technically have a possible playoff slot?
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Well, technically, you lose nine games and make the playoffs in that teams have won a division with a 7-9 record. 8-8 is more common. However, given scheduling, a team might just eliminate itself because of loses in the division. For example, if you have an "unbalanced" schedule in that you play the same division team twice prior to Week 8 and lose both, you have to imagine epic collapses to overcome tie-breaker. This is why 10-6/11-5 teams do not make the playoffs some years. So I am not sure "what" number would work.

An NFL historian could probably tell what was the worse opening to make a play-off. The worse record to make a playoff is still the 7-9 Seamen who won their Division! They also won their Wild Card home game to?
The Faints
However:
Using the league alignment and scheduling instituted by the NFL in 2002, it is possible for all four teams in a division to be 3-13; one of them will have to be the winner. In this scenario, each team loses 4 inter-conference games and 6 intra-conference games for 10 total losses. Additionally, each team in the division splits with each other divisional opponent for 3 more losses.

It is also possible to win the division with a 0-10-6 record. Each team must tie in all games with divisional opponents, then lose the rest of their games. One team will win a tie breaker and win the division. It is very unlikely, but theoretically possible. Imagine that, a team makes the playoffs with no wins!

Linkypoo
The various MEANIE points are sort of a tradition. RCC started it to tweak me against the Patriots. He also refused to recognize Thursday games which was, frankly, idiotic given the NFL's attempts to put premier games on Thursday . . . even though they fail. Could you imagine NOT picking on Thanksgiving? Anyways, when I took over I decided to tweak the Squealer fans such as Charley as well as add a balance given I would not pick NE. If you review the games I have tested the the effects of the MP. NOT being able to pick the Pats is a greater detriment than having the Meanie Points.

Let us see what the peasants think.

--J.D.

I could consider letting a winner pick a
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by gnome »

Fasciniating stats!

As far as the potential value of "n" I would settle on something that is rare but achievable. If it never, ever happens except that one time, it's not much use putting it in. In my mind I see something that occurs maybe one in three years.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Malfie Henpox »

[picture]
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

I could certainly institute a My Coward Bitch Siobhán Bonus where every time a player makes him cry and wet himself we all get a point.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Malfie Henpox »

Pffft. NFL players couldn't even make a whoopsy cry.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

Everyone gets a point!

A RIVER to my people!

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Malfie Henpox »

And another! I must have a bladder like a traction engine!
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

But then, I would need an extra-pair of hands to count up all of the points every time I sent My Bitch into an incontinent tantrum.

Never mind. Too much math.

--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Malfie Henpox »

Got me on ignore yet, treacle toes? Soon. X
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Doctor X »

So now that My Bitch is crying over multiple threads, returning to the business at hand we have:
  • Mulligan: see various forms above.

    Tiosyde Bonus: if your team has a coach and/or GM fired by Brack Fliday . . . sorry . . . "Japanese Original" . . . Black Friday you get 1-2 points. Before the "Mid-Point"--arbitrarily Week 8-9--3-5 points. Exact points to be discussed. Resignation does not count. I would count what happened with the Texans: fire a coach then fire the interim coach as separate events worth t3h pointage! :hyper:

    Doctor X The Humble Yet [Get on with it!--Ed.] Greedy Bonus: once during the regular season you may pick two games. Perhaps the same game twice to guarantee a win. Of course, as "smart player" who gets two great teams basically picks up tons of points! :eager:

    To the Victor Goes the MEANIES I like the MEANIE points for NE and then Steelers. People have asked about players also having a MEANIE team. I thought of letting the winner not only pick the theme but pick a team that EITHER gains him a point if you pick against it--like My MEANIE POINTS--which are mine--OR like the Charley/NE where beating the Steelers/NE gives you an extra point.

    The only problem with that is it may give the really good player an extra advantage.
--J.D.
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Re: The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Suggestion Thrad

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:
Tiosyde Bonus: if your team has a coach and/or GM fired by Brack Fliday . . . sorry . . . "Japanese Original" . . . Black Friday you get 1-2 points. Before the "Mid-Point"--arbitrarily Week 8-9--3-5 points. Exact points to be discussed. Resignation does not count. I would count what happened with the Texans: fire a coach then fire the interim coach as separate events worth t3h pointage! :hyper:
The only problem I have with the "mid-point" is that coach firings at any point during the regular season tend to be pretty rare, usually limited to teams that are eliminated from playoff contention really early. Most firings tend to take place on the day following the conclusion of Week 17, which is why I think the 3-5 points should apply to any firings that occur during the full regular season, with the 1-2 points being awarded for firings occurring from the conclusion of the final game of the regular season through the end of the Super Bowl.

If you insist a mid-point in the regular season I would then suggest week 13 as that usually serves as the end of the "regular" season for Fantasy Football.

Doctor X wrote: Doctor X The Humble Yet [Get on with it!--Ed.] Greedy Bonus: once during the regular season you may pick two games. Perhaps the same game twice to guarantee a win. Of course, as "smart player" who gets two great teams basically picks up tons of points! :eager:
I'd do this OR the mulligan, but not both. I actually like this better.
Doctor X wrote: To the Victor Goes the MEANIES I like the MEANIE points for NE and then Steelers. People have asked about players also having a MEANIE team. I thought of letting the winner not only pick the theme but pick a team that EITHER gains him a point if you pick against it--like My MEANIE POINTS--which are mine--OR like the Charley/NE where beating the Steelers/NE gives you an extra point.

The only problem with that is it may give the really good player an extra advantage.
If you were to implement this as a feature, I'd say that the person shouldn't be able to pick up the team generating their MEANIE POINTS, in the same manner as you with NE.

My concern with this is if it is YOU who wins [Boo Hiss!--Ed.] you would then have two teams that generate MEANIE POINTS for you.