The NFL "Sorry to Make You Cry" Challenge X

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:50 am

Now I have to go to work and listen to everybody cry about their squares.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:53 am

Doctor X, thank you and please continue this fine tradition.

Not a lot of people used Mulligans... is it a case of Too Awesome To Use?

I kept waiting for when I thought it would be a good idea. Of course, picking before Sunday would probably help.

Evolver · Post by **Evolver** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:09 pm

Someone posting to the Seattle Times said: "After 17 years, Pete Carroll finally brought the Patriots a championship."

And congrats, Tio. Nice game everybody.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:20 pm

Someone on the radio noted that when Pete was the Patriot's coach he promised to bring them a championship.

I sense one of these "meme-things."

The interception is on a continuous loop on the NFL and ESPN.

--J.D.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:12 pm

Doctor X wrote: He should . . . like . . . pick a film for next year when the PATRIOTS DEFEND THEIR TITLE!!!11!! [!--Ed.]

Will have to think on it. My initial reaction would be to pick The Interview for the obvious SB connection, but not sure that's the direction I want to go.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Now we know the answer....

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/ ... 1D27F5.jpg

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:40 pm

http://www.millan.net/minimations/smile ... screen.gif

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... vsodo1.gif

--J.D.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:50 pm

--J.D.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:53 pm

Doctor X wrote:http://www.millan.net/minimations/smile ... screen.gif

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... vsodo1.gif

--J.D.

I cringe every time I see it nor do I like it. Sherman may be an asshole, but he did his job during the game and the loss was WAY outside of his control. The image they should be using is of the QB.

Just my 2 cents.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:35 pm

For a movie, how about Die Fledermaus

Get it? "De-flator mo--"

I'll go now.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:56 pm

gnome wrote:For a movie, how about Die Fledermaus

Get it? "De-flator mo--"

I'll go now.

:nope

Here's a thought gnome: Next time do better than 15th place and maybe...just maybe...you can pick the movie.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:15 pm

Oooooo! BURN!

As for Sherman, he made BIG ON CAMERA attack on Revis during the game.

You act like that; do not complain when it bites you back in the ass. I have no sympathy for the asshole. And if he was so good, Brady would not put 14 on him in the 4th Quarter.

--J.D.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:22 pm

Doctor X wrote:Oooooo! BURN!

As for Sherman, he made BIG ON CAMERA attack on Revis during the game.

You act like that; do not complain when it bites you back in the ass. I have no sympathy for the asshole. And if he was so good, Brady would not put 14 on him in the 4th Quarter.

--J.D.

Like I said; he is an asshole, but the failure was not his.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:22 pm

Meanwhile . . . apparently Warren Sapp was suspended and now fired.

Michael Holley: "Why did it take a prostitute to finally get him fired?"

Don Robert Kraft: "Today I settled all family business, so don't tell me you're innocent Waren!"

--J. "Warren? Oh You Won't See Him No More" D.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:25 pm

Doctor X wrote:Meanwhile . . . apparently Warren Sapp was suspended and now fired.

Michael Holley: "Why did it take a prostitute to finally get him fired?"

Don Robert Kraft: "Today I settled all family business, so don't tell me you're innocent Waren!"

--J. "Warren? Oh You Won't See Him No More" D.

Does it mean we won't see those shitty Bud Light commercials with him again?

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:34 pm

Grammatron wrote:Like I said; he is an asshole, but the failure was not his.

Oh I see.

Yeah. But he DID fail to prevent Pats receivers from receiving.

I just do not have enough bile in me to do it to Pete Carroll. He may be a clown. He may be steroid cheat. But I could not just do it to him.

Nor did I post the picture of all of the Seattle fans at the same moment.

--J.D.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:44 pm

Grammatron wrote:Does it mean we won't see those shitty Bud Light commercials with him again?

One can only hope. He was useless as a "reporter/commenter/whatever the fuck he did."

And Pats fans?

https://warosu.org/data/fa/img/0069/18/ ... 660823.jpg

LEAVE TRENT DILFER ALONE!

How many times can he apologize for the comments he made after KC assraped the Pats way, way back?

--J.D.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:57 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Grammatron wrote:Like I said; he is an asshole, but the failure was not his.
Oh I see.

Yeah. But he DID fail to prevent Pats receivers from receiving.

I just do not have enough bile in me to do it to Pete Carroll. He may be a clown. He may be steroid cheat. But I could not just do it to him.

Nor did I post the picture of all of the Seattle fans at the same moment.

--J.D.

That is true. Also, not being a fan of either team, I am not well versed on history between both teams and their players. And if I were a Pats fan, it would probably dampen/destroy any heart break I would feel for Sherman at that moment, even if I was ignorant of said history. Other than that...it is what it is.

At any rate, this was a good football season as far as the sport goes. Kind of a shitty season as far as NFL brand goes. Thank you (Doctor X) for organizing this again and I hope we can do it again come September.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:15 pm

Barring accidents.

Now just need to convince Tio to chose a good movie . . . like one I would actually want to watch . . . in other words one that does not involve Seth Rogen. . . .

--J.D.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:10 am

It was an ending straight out of the Browns playbook.

gnome · Post by **gnome** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:22 am

Tiosylanyl wrote:
gnome wrote:For a movie, how about Die Fledermaus

Get it? "De-flator mo--"

I'll go now.
:nope

Here's a thought gnome: Next time do better than 15th place and maybe...just maybe...you can pick the movie.

It's all yours, seriously. :bricks:

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:04 am

gnome wrote:
Tiosylanyl wrote:
gnome wrote:For a movie, how about Die Fledermaus

Get it? "De-flator mo--"

I'll go now.
:nope

Here's a thought gnome: Next time do better than 15th place and maybe...just maybe...you can pick the movie.
It's all yours, seriously. :bricks:

Just trash talking a bit dude. :D

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:06 am

Doctor X wrote:Barring accidents.

Now just need to convince Tio to chose a good movie . . . like one I would actually want to watch . . . in other words one that does not involve Seth Rogen. . . .

--J.D.

Hey, I've got six months or so to mull on it....probably won't be that movie.

......Although it is tempting to pick it just to make you watch it. :P

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:28 am

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... /brood.gif

--J.D.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:05 am

Okay . . . okay . . . okay . . . apparently there is a "meme" of the "Dead Kid" from the stupid SB ad which eventually led to:

http://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key= ... AAZQCM.jpg

--J.D.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:38 am

Meanwhile:

[youtube]XZuqd2VWTLU[/youtube]

[youtube]smwmgZViC0g[/youtube]

Some language not safe for work.

--J. "That Makes No Sense! That Makes No Sense! I Can't Believe That! We Had the Game Won! We Had the Game Won!" D.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:52 am

The PFW peoples noted that some woman asked His Billness [PBUH--Ed.] if he would have thrown or run the ball in The Worst Play Call in Human History¹.

Answer?

"We're on to Cincinnati."

"We were on defense."

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... 794f0e.gif

--J.D.

¹

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:03 am

I did hear a defense of the call. Well, the person making the defense still thought they should have handed it to Lynch, but came up with a reasonable sounding rationale.

First of all, the interception was a low-probability outcome.
Second, they wanted to burn a little more time off the clock before scoring.
Third, turnovers can happen on running plays too.
Fourth, as you mention, it's not actually a sure thing that he will score if you hand him the ball.
Fifth, the Pats were expecting the run and had all their big guys in to try to stop it.
Sixth, an incompletion stops the clock, but if Lynch gets stuffed they have to burn their last timeout.

Maybe Pete Carroll outsmarted himself or overthunk it.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:45 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Maybe Pete Carroll outsmarted himself or overthunk it.

Per all your point, I just listened to the Pats Dudes analyze it. Pretty much everyone wanted Belichick to either let Lynch score or use his time outs to preserve time to try to make it into field goal range to tie the game. They theorize that Pete thought that AND that The Miraculous Catch would be reviewed.

It was not, and Belichick did not even complain. He could not challenge it either way since it was under 2 minutes, but Pete expected at least a cry for a booth review. Because of that, he could not get his offense in place in time so he burns his second time-out. Belichick knew this.

So Pete does the obvious--runs Lynch--who gets it to the like one inch line. At this point Pete has only one time-out. If he burns this, then the next run play, if it fails, will run out the clock. The Pats have their Super Fucking Goal Line defense. Now, a few times, such stopped Lynch during the game. They have 55 seconds left with the play clock running.

At this point, Pete thinks a quick pass play. Either TD and Fuck You trying to get to FG range in under 20 seconds or it stops the clock. This preserves his last time-out so he has possibility of two plays--one run, then time out, then one last run. Going to keep Lynch out twice?

And that is where he played into His Billness' hands. As a number of analysts explained, the Pats recognized the play. Ex-Seamen Browner knew how to stop the pick and Who is That Guy Butler later explained they practiced against this very play. Playing the role of Wilson, back up QB Gargarfolovoaflahgo burned him on this and Belichick made him do it over and over until he got it right.

THAT all being vomited, HAD the Pats stopped Lynch two times . . . well . . . tip your hat. That is NFL. Or why did not Russel try running? Anything.

Some criticism is coming to Wilson and Whateverhisname since this is what happens in FAIL--shoulda caught the ball, Welcker! Shoulda made the interception Asante¹--because Wilson should have thrown the ball low so that only his receiver could make a play on it. "High balls!"--*snicker* *snort*--get tipped and intercepted. The receiver also did not make a strong play on the ball but--according to Gurus--he probably had no idea Butler was about to counter-pick him.

Then give credit to Butler for the following:

1. Breaking up a pass that a few series before would have put Seattle on the Pats 20 when the Pats were still losing. Even a FG makes this at best a tied game. In that case, Pete says "fuck it" and kicks the FG for the win.

2. Pushing That Guy out of bounds after the Miraculous Catch. Otherwise he runs for the TD . . . hey, Brady, maybe you can make it into FG range in under a minute when we all know you are passing deep!

3. Catching the Fucking Ball: critical. If he bats it down . . . that is incomplete. Lynch runs it in next play . . . I rant for pages and pages.

So either Pete was played by His Billness and/or he panicked. I think a bit of both. But that is a bit of hindsight in that if they called a better passing play and/or it succeeded, Brady is now left with 18 seconds to get into FG range.

--J.D.

¹Who after dropping an interception of Little Goat Manning then moving on to the Eagles claimed, he would never drop another interception in a Super Bowl again.

To which many Pats fans/reporters responded, "that's right Asante . . . you will never drop an interception in a Super Bowl again." This, of course, proved true. I, too, have never dropped an interception, or fumbled a ball, or even jumped off-sides in a Super Bowl.

I am awesome that way.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:10 am

Yeah. Anyway, people are only saying "worst play call ever" because the result is what it is. If it had merely been an incompletion, nobody would have second-guessed it. If it had been a touchdown of course nobody would second-guess it. It was executed poorly. Some were questioning why Belechick didn't stop the clock earlier. If the result had gone the other way and Brady wasn't left with enough time on the clock for more than one hail-mary attempt, people would be blaming him for losing the game by not calling a time out earlier. It might be the most unfortunate play call ever, but a defensible one nonetheless.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:23 am

I am convinced there is more thought on the part of Belichick and panic and choke on the part of Carrol. Very few coaches know how to run the clock. Carrol wanted to run down the clock because he was scared of what would happen. Then he realized he did not have a lot of time nor time-outs. This is in stark contrast with his willingness to go for a TD with 6 seconds left to tie the game at the end of the first half.

Nevertheless, as more than a few put it, because the Pats won, Brady is "the greatest QB in history" and all of that.

Had Seattle won . . . there is no change to Brady's scoring 14 in about 6 minutes of the 4th quarter to take a lead. But no one will care. He threw two picks, "can't win the big game," and is "now 3-3!!!11!!" Suddenly people are Brian Leaf is a better QB "in the clutch."

Winning solves everything.

Here is a Real World Example: Professional Flatulent Woody Paige who--after a few sexual harassment charges left New York and ended up in Denver--last year declared if Peyton won the SB he would be "the Greatest QB in History" and all of that crap. Pats fans squealed about how poor Peyton has played in the post-season compared with Tom Terrific.

Nope. Woody has "stats" and "stuff" to "prove" that two SB wins beats three and all of that.

Then . . . Denver got ass-raped last year.

He has now declared Brady "the Greatestest!"

What changed?

I think--as an objective fan boy--that Peyton would not have executed the passes Brady did. He would have turtled and "Peyton Faced" after the second interception. Of course, I have no way of proving that.

Nevertheless, you are more likely to win if you do not charge the beach naked and armed with a noodle.

--J.D.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:32 pm

Sorry Anax, but even if it worked I think several people (myself included) would have been thinking "what the fuck was he thinking???!1!1!1!!?!?1!1?!ELEVENTY!!!1!"

It was NOT necessarily because of it being a pass play, but the specific pass play that was selected.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:04 pm

Though . . .

. . . as I work I listened to a long explanation I will not tediously reproduce regarding how His Billness' non-use of a time-out forced Pete to run a passing play since:

1. Lynch was 1 for 5 in such situations.
2. One missed run--worse in the backfield--may run out the clock.
3. Teams were perfect this season in that particular play--zero interceptions.

Also, Seattle had like three receivers indicating a passing play--they are not going to block as effectively for a run.

Still, even after all of that, said Talking Head say, "it is still unfathomable" for him that Pete did not run. No matter how logical it may sound the results argue differently.

So there you go.

I will actually watch the "miked-up" broadcast later tonight to hear what the sidelines were saying.

--J.D.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:20 pm

I hadn't heard the stat regarding Lynch until the day after. If it was mentioned during the broadcast I must have missed it. However, I'd find it difficult to believe that the coaching staff would have had that particular stat at their fingertips, at that moment, for it to appreciably affect the decision. Maybe they do, I just find it unlikely.

That being written, it being a pass isn't at issue. Everyone expected them to hand off to Lynch, but then they lined up in an obvious passing play. Why not play-action to keep them on their toes if your going to pass? Line up like it is a run and peel off your tight end? Why not a fade route and back shoulder pass? An obvious pass play, with a pass towards the center of the field with the defense that compacted in the end-zone is just asking for trouble.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:51 pm

This is a fascinating play. Obviously, I have a "dog in the fight." I would like to think I would find it even if I did not. The more it is dissected, the more interesting it gets . . . though we still return to your observation/objection:

Tiosylanyl wrote:I hadn't heard the stat regarding Lynch until the day after. If it was mentioned during the broadcast I must have missed it. However, I'd find it difficult to believe that the coaching staff would have had that particular stat at their fingertips, at that moment, for it to appreciably affect the decision. Maybe they do, I just find it unlikely.

I certainly do not recall it during the broadcast. However, the coaching staff would know that. "Situational football." I am told while Carroll is more the "player's coach" than His Billness, he has the same attention to detail. His Billness quizzes players on such details, so I am sure Pete remembers every time they failed in the Red Zone and why. Now Pete will never admit to that, at least not now, that he had some doubt about Lynch in that particular situation.

But Lynch was stopped for loses. Still . . . if the Pats somehow got to Lynch, the clock runs out, Seattle is as disappointed as anyone BUT they are not second-guessing.

Critically, Seattle targeted Butler--a known undrafted rookie on a big state. However, he made critical plays that stopped a few Seattle drives. One was amazing that prevented a 3rd down conversion and forced a punt . . . rather than giving them a first down on the Pats 20. I write "critically" because I think they targeted him again with the endzone pick.

That being written, it being a pass isn't at issue. Everyone expected them to hand off to Lynch, but then they lined up in an obvious passing play. Why not play-action to keep them on their toes if your going to pass?

Yup.

I think they thought they could make that play on a rookie. They almost did. Hell, given the filming angle I thought the receiver DID make the catch. Then I see he does not have the ball and I think "incompletion" and here we go again.

I did not know any of this at the time--this only comes from listening to Pats players and the like describe the mechanism of the play. The Pats knew Seattle liked that play and they practiced it. Credit to Browner for preventing the pick on Butler. That was critical. I really think Seattle thought the run the pick, receiver is free at the goal-line, sorry to make you cry.

I am agreeing with the arguably pro-Patriot Wonks that the "Worse Play Call in History" detracts from Butler.

How the fuck did he avoid pass interference? Seriously! Same with that other play I mentioned above . . . not the one where his hand conveniently fell on the ankles of the receiver. :De_Bunk: Hey, you rough our kicker and helmet-to-helmet our QB, we might just get a bit of your feet.

BUT . . . all of that blather is MEANINGLESS for we all will forever come back to what you conclude with:

Line up like it is a run and peel off your tight end? Why not a fade route and back shoulder pass? An obvious pass play, with a pass towards the center of the field with the defense that compacted in the end-zone is just asking for trouble.

Yup.

I am sure there is a logical argument for the Maginot Line and Picket's Charge. I am suddenly reminded of one of the funniest lines ever made: "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

It is not like Russel Wilson cannot run. It is not as if he was passing poorly and did not succeed with a few "Too High for Anyone But the Receiver." One criticism some former players made was as you observed, the play has you potentially throwing into the teeth of the defense. The chance of it being tipped, for example.

Or as one Wonk/Comedian put it--who does a great Tito Francona and Robert Kraft impersonation: "I foresee Pete Carroll in a wheelchair, in a nursing home, muttering "Run the ball! Run the ball! Run the ball! Run the ball! Run the ball!"

--J.D.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:12 pm

Doctor X wrote:
I am agreeing with the arguably pro-Patriot Wonks that the "Worse Play Call in History" detracts from Butler.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Definitely credit where credit is due. That kid did his job and then some, and I could care less about the Patriots because they're always walking over the Broncos......

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:35 am

Tiosylanyl wrote:because they're always walking over the Broncos......

That is only because they got rid of Jake "The Snake" Cutler in favor of St. Tim and then Peyton. . . .

--J.D.

Tiosylanyl · Post by **Tiosylanyl** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:00 am

Doctor X wrote:
Tiosylanyl wrote:because they're always walking over the Broncos......
That is only because they got rid of Jake "The Snake" Cutler in favor of St. Tim and then Peyton. . . .

--J.D.

I trust you've seen at least highlights of Bears games since that trade. It wouldn't have mattered if they kept him. He didn't make the playoffs in the three years he was there. At least St. Tim of Tebow won a playoff game there. Hell, unless I'm completely mistaken, Cutler Slutler has only made the playoffs one time between Denver and Chicago and has the same record as Tebow.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:11 am

Tiosylanyl wrote:I trust you've seen at least highlights of Bears games since that trade.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... 477755.gif

There is a somewhat crazy Pats fan who will call into podcasts and the like. He was a huge St. Timmy fan and argued, to near Doris level desperation, that "Tom Brady is no good in the Red Zone," and the Pats have no option for running in the Red Zone.

So . . . they should have kept St. Timmy to run the Red Zone offense, I kid you not!

Soooooooo . . . I called in to a podcast and suggested that the failure of "The Play" was Seattle let St. Timmy slip through their fingers. :De_Bunk:

--J.D.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:39 am

Some dude who knows a little about football chimed in.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... riots-says

"There has been a lot of criticism that I don't think is anywhere close to being deserved or founded," Belichick said Tuesday during his weekly appearance on sports radio WEEI in Boston. "That football team is very good, very well-coached, and Pete does a great job.

"Malcolm and Brandon [Browner], on that particular play, just made a great play. I think the criticism they've gotten for the game is totally out of line and by a lot of people who I don't think are anywhere near even qualified to be commenting on it."