Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray Rice.

Never agree to 3 points above the vig.
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Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray Rice.

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Gordon suspension upheld.
Josh Gordon will miss the entire 2014 season following the NFL's announcement Wednesday that it has upheld the Cleveland Browns receiver's yearlong suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

Gordon's suspension is effective immediately, and he will have to apply for reinstatement following the season.
Last edited by Tiosylanyl on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doctor X
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Should have just knocked out his girlfriend/wife.








Too soon?

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:Should have just knocked out his girlfriend/wife.








Too soon?

--J.D.
Too irrelevant.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Grammatron wrote:
Doctor X wrote:Should have just knocked out his girlfriend/wife.








Too soon?

--J.D.
Too irrelevant.
Ipse dixit but incorrect.

Sports Dudes are discussing the contradiction as we write. Now Gordon is an idiot. However, the extreme differences in punishment conveys the message that it is "better" to do what the Ravens player did.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:
Grammatron wrote: Too irrelevant.
Ipse dixit but incorrect.

Sports Dudes are discussing the contradiction as we write. Now Gordon is an idiot. However, the extreme differences in punishment conveys the message that it is "better" to do what the Ravens player did.

--J.D.
I am sorry, but that thinking is disconnected from reality.

Gordon has repeatedly violated the NFL's substance-abuse policy. Gordon has also been arrested for DWI. Those are all tangible, indisputable actions that are covered by CBA with direct, recommended penalties.

Conversely, Ray Rice very likely assaulted his wife (then fiance) in an elevator. I say likely because there is no evidence, she refuses to testify, and while Rice apologized for the incident, he never clarified what exactly happened. Furthermore, he has not been convicted of anything of anything.

Now, is beating up someone unconscious worse than smoking weed? Fuck yeah. How about repeatedly smoking weed? Still Fuck yeah. Is it worse than DWI? Difficult to say, I would argue that on the face of it DWI is far worse, but that's just my opinion. Putting all of this together, Gordon's punishment seems appropriate.

It's simple for NFL to punish players who clearly violate a policy or a law. It's difficult to do so with someone where the details are not that clear.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Grammatron wrote:I am sorry, but that thinking is disconnected from reality.
Ipse dixit but incorrect again.
Gordon has repeatedly violated the NFL's substance-abuse policy. Gordon has also been arrested for DWI. Those are all tangible, indisputable actions that are covered by CBA with direct, recommended penalties.
And the punishment for such should be greater than:
Conversely, Ray Rice very likely assaulted his wife (then fiance) in an elevator.
Now re-read your first sentence to yourself.

There is also evidence--there is a video.

One of the major complaints against the Commissioner--which further establishes why this controversy is "relevant"--is he does not put evidence out in the open. So if any imagined extenuating circumstances for a NFL player to beat a woman unconscious exists it would be seen. From a practical standpoint, the video of what happened inside the elevator will eventually get leaked. This will further undercut the Commissioner's position, unless, along with unicorns and show-ponies, it shows Ray Rice bravely defending himself against an onslaught which culminates in his fiance beating herself unconscious.

But that is not what he was suspended a mere two games for, of course.

As for the woman not cooperating, I am sure you are familiar with the documented behavior of some women in abusive relationships. The NFL is not a "court of law"--they do not rule based on evidence of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt."

So you are left with that critical dichotomy, which is why the criticism and discussion proves relevant.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

I'm going to snip some stuff, if that removes any context you think is relevant, I apologize in advance.
Doctor X wrote: Now re-read your first sentence to yourself.

There is also evidence--there is a video.
There is no camera in the elevator. The camera was in the lobby and thus the video only shows the aftermath. In a court of law that would be circumstantial at best.
One of the major complaints against the Commissioner--which further establishes why this controversy is "relevant"--is he does not put evidence out in the open. So if any imagined extenuating circumstances for a NFL player to beat a woman unconscious exists it would be seen. From a practical standpoint, the video of what happened inside the elevator will eventually get leaked. This will further undercut the Commissioner's position, unless, along with unicorns and show-ponies, it shows Ray Rice bravely defending himself against an onslaught which culminates in his fiance beating herself unconscious.
If such video comes to light and it shows Ray Rice beating up his wife. I will hope he not only gets suspended from NFL for few years but serves actual jail time. I will also retract everything I've said.
But that is not what he was suspended a mere two games for, of course.

As for the woman not cooperating, I am sure you are familiar with the documented behavior of some women in abusive relationships. The NFL is not a "court of law"--they do not rule based on evidence of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt."

So you are left with that critical dichotomy, which is why the criticism and discussion proves relevant.

--J.D.
I am familiar with the documented behavior, I was merely pointing out how the case lacks clarity.

You are right that NFL is not a court of law, but they do operate within their own set of rules. If there is no cut and dry version of what happened, then the public is forcing NFL to make an arbitrary ruling. This may open the door to force NFL to make other arbitrary rulings, or worse give this and future commissionaires power to arbitrarily punish players they do not like.

Bottom line, I just don't think that comparing these two cases is reasonable.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Grammatron wrote:There is no camera in the elevator.
There were cameras in the elevator. That video has not been released. Of course, I cannot show it to you nor do I know the contents of it other than "what reports say," but let us pretend that, for some reason, the film is not available The camera was in the lobby and thus the video only shows the aftermath.
In a court of law
My turn to declare "irrelevant"--NFL is not a court of law. Recall Ben Rapesherburgler's suspension. Et cetera.
This is not a criticism regarding the failure to bring a legal proceeding against Rice. We both do not have the video from the elevator. Let us pretend is shows her hitting him, he hits her back, she is knocked out. She refuses to press any charges against him. A DA is faced with that has an uncooperative victim who will testify for the defense, a situation where someone is defending against assault. We can argue until we are pink in the prostate that he "used too much force" or "a man should NEVER hit a woman NO MATTER WHAT!!11!!" but defense attorneys will eat that alive.

In that made-up--possibly true--circumstance, the Comish should have stated that it was clear this was a domestic dispute that both parties engaged in. That, nevertheless, he needs to send a message that NFL players should not . . . blah . . . blah.

I "tangent" this because it can go on and on with wild speculation as to whether or not Rice needed to strike her to subdue her and, face it, this is a thread about Cleveland. Further, it has to do with the problem of a mixed message--NFL hates weed more than domestic violence.
If such video comes to light and it shows Ray Rice beating up his wife. I will hope he not only gets suspended from NFL for few years but serves actual jail time. I will also retract everything I've said.
I think I now recognize the problem: Being that I am a benevolent Clausian Worthy--and Biblically Qualified--Skeptic, I considered perhaps I "misremember'd" the detail of a video in an elevator. Atlantic casinos. They have videos EVERYWHERE partly for this very reason.
Police have obtained a videotape of Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice hitting his fiancee and knocking her unconscious at an Atlantic City casino, according to a report on SI.com.

In a different video, shown below and obtained by TMZ on Wednesday, Rice drags fiancee Janay Palmer from an elevator inside the casino Saturday.

SurrenderMonkeyTimes
Now that plays into the crap in my "Tangent" regarding making a successful prosecution.

The Comish and NFL are not the police. They have an option to suspend for as long at they want within some parameters defined in the collective bargaining agreement. In that case, I return to the initial point: it appears the NFL takes domestic violence to be less of a "threat to the Shield" than marijuana. To combat that, the Comish should have been far more specific with why only two games.

He did not.

Hence the criticism which is ongoing.
I am familiar with the documented behavior, I was merely pointing out how the case lacks clarity.
I understand that, but I think you are concentrating on legal clarity. This reminds me of apologists for the Roiders in MLB who claim "Clemens was proven INOCCENTS!!11!" Or, better perhaps, that technically the evidences--thanks--against A-Roid and others were "circumstantial." True for any legal proceeding. Not true for MLB.
If there is no cut and dry version of what happened, . . .
There is--there is the video in the elevator. Now, given the police/DA did not pursue a legal case, if we both assume there are extenuating circumstances or whatever we wish to dream up, the Comish and NFL should have stated and explained that.

This could even include the Comish stating that said fiance or fiancee denied the charges, that the video is unavailable to the NFL to review for whatever reason, so, therefore, their hands are "tied." I would argue, then, for a still longer suspension but at least the Comish would have firmer standing to argue.
Bottom line, I just don't think that comparing these two cases is reasonable.
And that is where you are wrong. And not just because of your choice in unfashionable footwear. BECAUSE of difference in penalties given the cases, it appears to not just rabid man-hatting video-game censoring self-importantly incompetent professional cry babies that the NFL considers use of a substance that is now legal in some altered states is MORE damaging than beating up a woman.

IF you are focusing on the legal aspects of the cases, I understand, yes, I do, your reticence. You see ambiguity on the second--Rice--and you see a long process of failing to comply to NFL rules. A Patriot is suspended for 4 games for legally using ritalin for his diagnosed ADHD. He has been taking prescribed ritalin since he were a wee spud. However, as he admits, he FAIL'd to file the proper paperwork for his prescription renewal. The rules are hard and "zero tolerance."

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

And now, in a memo, Roger Goodell admits he screwed up.
Letter to Ownership wrote:At times, however, and despite our best efforts, we fall short of our goals, . . . We clearly did so in response to a recent incident of domestic violence. . . . My disciplinary decision led the public to question our sincerity, our commitment, and whether we understood the toll that domestic violence inflicts on so many families. I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values.

I didn't get it right.

Linkypoo
--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

I got busy with work and personal stuff so I could not reply yesterday. I was going to do it today...but I did not think it would change anything as I think we have a difference of opinion. However, with the NFL taking some action today I think I should reply with something.

NFL can do whatever the fuck they want to do because they are a private organization. That certainly does not mean I support or agree with any or all of their actions. NFL/commissionaire felt that their action were appropriate at the time. The public disagreed and so they have changed their policy for the future. Still, it's not cut and dry " with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant." What counts as a mitigating factor? Can anything that happened with Rice be counted as a mitigating factor? Would this count? "Police said Rice and fiancee Janay Palmer hit each other, and both were charged with simple assault -- domestic violence upon being arrested Saturday. The Ravens told USA TODAY Sports the pair 'returned home together after being detained.'"

However, all of that is meaningless because I only took issue with how the media (and you) chose to compare the two situations. They are not the same, at all. The only thing they have in common is that they involve NFL. There are no mitigating factors in Gordon's case. He broke the rules regarding substance abuse repeatedly, and was even arrested for DWI during the review process.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Grammatron wrote:I got busy with work and personal stuff so I could not reply yesterday.
Evasion noted.

--jdReport

Here . . . have a chicken leg. . . .
. . . as I think we have a difference of opinion.
I think the difference is more that you looked at it as more of a legal matter where there has to be standards of evidence similar to a legal case, as well as two rules are separate issues, whereas I considered the message the NFL seemed to be sending to The Children!

Do you not care about . . . The Children?

Goodell's decision was a major cock-up. I was going to post--but the posts had gotten long and unClevelandlike--similar cases where a guy goes to jail for life for stealing a slice of pizza and Joe Moneybags gets four weeks in a country club for selling small children to North Korea as reactor shielding. Research shows there was no actual law against selling children as reactor shielding if you have financed a US Senator's reelection campaign and/or like Obama and the other guy committed his "third strike."

Analogous to this discussion, I would argue that while the law states "such and such" "the law is an ass" and needs to be changed since it appears the law cares more about slices of pizza than . . .


. . .



. . . wait for it . . .



. . . The Children!

You would, in turn, argue that the cases are irrelevant. From a legal standpoint you would be correct. However, I would argue that part of what would drive a new law to punish selling The Children as reactor shielding and changing a three-strikes law is both the appearance and reality of unfairness, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
NFL can do whatever the fuck they want to do because they are a private organization.
Not quite . . . see below.
That certainly does not mean I support or agree with any or all of their actions. NFL/commissionaire felt that their action were appropriate at the time. The public disagreed and so they have changed their policy for the future. Still, it's not cut and dry " with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant." What counts as a mitigating factor?
Well, yeah, and the details are not completely available. For example, there are players who have committed >1 domestic violent incident in college. Should that count? I think "mitigating factors" are something like a guy losing his temper and slapping as opposed to kicking a door down and beating the living shit out of a woman.

Buuuuuuuutttttt . . . notice how problematic that discussion is. Does that somehow "lessen" slapping a woman? Particularly if you weigh 250+ lbs. Welcome to the quagmire! The Sports Duded to whom I am listening to currently are noting that Goodell is using a morals clause to rule without permission of the Player's Union. That being written, the Player's Union will have a very hard time "fighting" it or arguing for mitigation--see difficult paragraph above. As one Sports Dude put it, from a practical standpoint, the Players Union might have to take Goodell and the NFL to court.

If they are THAT stupid.
Can anything that happened with Rice be counted as a mitigating factor? Would this count? "Police said Rice and fiancee Janay Palmer hit each other, and both were charged with simple assault -- domestic violence upon being arrested Saturday. The Ravens told USA TODAY Sports the pair 'returned home together after being detained.'"
Well, that is the $37 ["37?"--Ed.] question. Goodell has seen the intraelevator ["Intraelevator?"--Ed.] "Inside the fucking elevator" video. Part of his amazing ability to dig himself deeper in a hole is he had hoped this would all go away and has refused to discuss it. So . . . it is anyone's guess. Searching and listening I have heard all sorts of wild speculation from she swung, missed him, and hit her head to he punched her in the face. Goodell would have done better if he answered yours and all of our questions: "what happened?"
However, all of that is meaningless because I only took issue with how the media (and you) chose to compare the two situations. They are not the same, at all.
Neither I nor most of the media of which I am aware ever claimed they were the "same thing," we claimed they were relevant. Same as if I give Listy a one-day suspension for . . . well . . . being Listy and ban you forever then have your house demolished while calling your boss to inform them of that "incident involving Thailand and an underage ungulate" because you suggest the Dolphins might win the season opener against the Patriots. They may not be the "same crimes"; however, the reaction to the second suggests that your "crime" is worse than Listy's.

Come to thing of it, as bad as Listy is for, well, being Listy to suggest the Dolphins could beat the Patriots? Bad example.

Level of punishment, severity of punishment, should suggest/represent/match/be . . . like . . . connected to the severity of the crime.

Now this is interesting:
There are no mitigating factors in Gordon's case. He broke the rules regarding substance abuse repeatedly, and was even arrested for DWI during the review process.
Gordon is a dumbass. No argument there. However, what "da peoples" are arguing is that the NFL should not respond so harshly to marijuana, "which parts of the country have legalized" as more than one commentator and talking-head has noted--and I realize two states do not a federal law unmake and, no, the NFL does not have to pay attention to that, particularly when it has responded so mildly to domestic violence.

Further, few I am aware of have argued that Gordon should have a lesser penalty other than those who feel the NFL should completely revisit its stance on marijuana. Leave that aside. Most are arguing the penalty for Rice should have been more severe. That is the point. In fact, prior this current situation, Gordon would have received a lesser punishment for punching his wife/girlfriend/unwilling to submit to your cis-male stereotypes.

It finally sank into Goodell's head this appearance and reality of unfairness.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

AAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD . . . the video in the elevator has been leaked.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Doctor X wrote:AAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD . . . the video in the elevator has been leaked.

--J.D.
He almost kills her when her head hits the hand rail inside the elevator. Fuck him.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

The Ravens have cut Rice.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11489 ... o-surfaces

Interesting tidbit here though
Earlier Monday, league spokesman Brian McCarthy regarding the video: "We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator. That video was not made available to us and no one in our office has seen it until today."
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Rob Lister »

Grammatron wrote:
Doctor X wrote:AAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD . . . the video in the elevator has been leaked.

--J.D.
He almost kills her when her head hits the hand rail inside the elevator. Fuck him.
http://static.dyp.im/sC7qVi8MDc/f6653c3 ... e2d64d.JPG
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Rob, I am not sure I get your reply.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Rob Lister »

Grammatron wrote:Rob, I am not sure I get your reply.
What's to get? It's just the screen capture of his fist connecting to her jaw.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Been busy.

I heard early screams from Sports Dudes that he needed to be cut.

Currently, a number of Sports Dudes are claiming the NFL did see the video as well as the prosecutors. Now Sports Dudes are calling for Godell to be fired.

To be fair, I have not seen--have not had time to check--confirmation that Godell and the prosecution saw that video. I would be very surprised that the police/prosecution did not since it is a casino's video, there was no reason for the casino to withhold it, and, if requested by warrent, that is obstruction.

Just In: the Prosecutor had told a newspaper that "that video will never be seen!" So he saw it prior to allowing the deal with Rice to avoid prison and actual prosecution.

All I can say is "good." Before he was cut, in the wee hours, a player called for him to be banned from the NFL. I can get the name if anyone cares.

--J.D.
Last edited by Doctor X on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Rob Lister wrote:
Grammatron wrote:Rob, I am not sure I get your reply.
What's to get? It's just the screen capture of his fist connecting to her jaw.
You quoted me and just posted an image, I just wanted it clarified. It's actually far more violent than just his fist connecting to her jaw.

http://i.imgur.com/c12BfhV.gif
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Doctor X »

Wow, this is exploding.

"Banned from the NFL"

So as a few commentators are screaming, "How do you go from two games to being banned?" No one believes Godell did not see that video. Calls for resignation.

Anyways . . . I have a nice article, but I am going to ask The Captain to allow this to be moved into its own topic. This thread can then return to the Tragedy that is Cleveland.

--J.D.
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Re: Ray Rice Cut

Post by izittrue »

The children have seen the video. They don't like it.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by ed »

Grammatron wrote: If such video comes to light and it shows Ray Rice beating up his wife. I will hope he not only gets suspended from NFL for few years but serves actual jail time. I will also retract everything I've said.
erm

BTW, that is assault. Why no prosecution?
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

ed wrote:
Grammatron wrote: If such video comes to light and it shows Ray Rice beating up his wife. I will hope he not only gets suspended from NFL for few years but serves actual jail time. I will also retract everything I've said.
Grammatron wrote: He almost kills her when her head hits the hand rail inside the elevator. Fuck him.
Perhaps my retraction was too subtle. Very well, I retract everything I've said in Rice's defense.

erm

BTW, that is assault. Why no prosecution?
Wife will not cooperate with the DA.
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Re: Ray Rice Cut

Post by Doctor X »

Prosecution does not need her cooperation with this video available--and it was available to the prosecution. The police had it. NFL had claimed the police would not let them see it. Enough Sports Dudes are noting that for Godell to rule as he did without seeing the video but knowing one existed demonstrates his incompetence.

However, Chris Mortenson and others have reported they knew the details of this video months ago from NFL insiders. So . . . members of the NFL saw the video and, somehow, Sheriff Godell did not?

The prosecutor should be dismissed/fired/voted out the next election.

Godell should be fired.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Doctor X wrote:
Anyways . . . I have a nice article, but I am going to ask The Captain to allow this to be moved into its own topic. This thread can then return to the Tragedy that is Cleveland.
Okay, this explains it.....I was confused when I logged in and saw a thread that I didn't remember starting with my name attached as the author.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Grammatron »

Tiosylanyl wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
Anyways . . . I have a nice article, but I am going to ask The Captain to allow this to be moved into its own topic. This thread can then return to the Tragedy that is Cleveland.
Okay, this explains it.....I was confused when I logged in and saw a thread that I didn't remember starting with my name attached as the author.
Some nights are better than others.
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Re: Ray Rice Cut

Post by Doctor X »

Well, the Non-Japanese Original article does not seem available. What I get for trusting Pravda The Boston Globe. Basically, it gave a list of the supportive tweets Ravens players, coaches and the like gave to "Ray Ray." It also dissected the time-line.

The big-ass question has been whether or not Godell saw the video. I am afraid I will need evidence he did not given that at least two reporters had details of the video months ago. Be that as it may, Godell should have stated that the suspension of two games--which was laughable to begin with--was pending further evidence.

Frankly, I think Godell and the Ravens wanted this to "go away."

Both should.

--J.D.
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Re: Ray Rice Cut

Post by Anaxagoras »

Lifetime ban? This article says "suspended indefinitely":

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11489 ... o-surfaces


I think the first punishment, a two-game suspension or whatever it was, was too light. Now they may have gone too far in the other direction. It seems like the amount of punishment is proportional to the amount of embarrassment the NFL feels, not the crime itself. It depends on whether the public sees it on video. If you had the same crime but no video existed, I can't imagine that people would be thinking about a lifetime ban.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by Pyrrho »

Tiosylanyl wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
Anyways . . . I have a nice article, but I am going to ask The Captain to allow this to be moved into its own topic. This thread can then return to the Tragedy that is Cleveland.
Okay, this explains it.....I was confused when I logged in and saw a thread that I didn't remember starting with my name attached as the author.
You should be able to change the title to anything you want by editing the OP.
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Re: Ray Rice Cut

Post by Doctor X »

Anaxagoras wrote:It depends on whether the public sees it on video. If you had the same crime but no video existed, I can't imagine that people would be thinking about a lifetime ban.
I do not know. People were pretty hot with just what was known. I was willing to, for the sake of argument and fairness, extend the "best possible situation" with regards to Ray-Ray: she was hitting him, he pushed her away . . . but why is he dragging her out of an elevator? Why is he not calling for help? Your soon-to-be-wife is unconscious.

Feh. Fuck him. Personally, I always thought he hit her. He demonstrated no evidence of defensive wounds so any concept of "she was beating me with her shoe and I was reading the Bible and writing checks to for Cute Orphans with Lisps" did not seem possible.

IF Godell did not see the video--big "if"--then Ray-Ray lied to him.

So ban him for like . . . five years.

--J.D.
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Re: More Crushing Disappointment for Cleveland

Post by ed »

Grammatron wrote:
ed wrote:
Grammatron wrote: If such video comes to light and it shows Ray Rice beating up his wife. I will hope he not only gets suspended from NFL for few years but serves actual jail time. I will also retract everything I've said.
Grammatron wrote: He almost kills her when her head hits the hand rail inside the elevator. Fuck him.
Perhaps my retraction was too subtle. Very well, I retract everything I've said in Rice's defense.
Not good enough.
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Doctor X
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Doctor X »

So the Comish states he never saw the video prior to his first slap on Ray-Ray's wrist?

Says that, "to his knowledge," no one in the NFL had seen it?







Really Woger?
But a law enforcement official told the Associated Press he sent a video of Rice punching Janay Palmer, now Rice's wife, to an NFL executive five months ago. The law enforcement official also played the AP a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."

USA Today
RESIGN!

--J.D.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Anaxagoras »

We're sure this is the in-elevator video, not the other, earlier one of him dragging her out of the elevator afterwards?
Anaxagoras
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Anaxagoras »

The official, speaking to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, says the NFL never followed up. The person can't confirm if anyone at the NFL watched the video. The person said he shared the video — which he was unauthorized to release — because he wanted the NFL to have it before deciding on Rice's punishment.
So we have the word of an anonymous person, who wasn't authorized to release the video but did so anyway, illegally.
Doctor X
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Doctor X »

Doctor X wrote:
But a law enforcement official told the Associated Press he sent a video of Rice punching Janay Palmer, now Rice's wife, to an NFL executive five months ago. The law enforcement official also played the AP a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."
Per your other question, they were authorized to release the video to the NFL.

A lawyer gave a very good bit of information on this. First, requests for such must be in writing. So there is a record--stamped 'in all--of all requests. Second, Ray-Ray's scumbag of a lawyer admitted he saw it. He is a scumbag because he kept saying "hypothetically" and suggesting that this video showed Janay was the aggressor. We all now know that was bullshit--and he has been unavailable for comment.

Godell could either have the NFL formally request the video or, even better, suspend Ray-Ray until he gave permission/provided the video.

--J.D.
Doctor X
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Doctor X »

Further, per his interview with Nora O'Donnell, Godell claimed that the NFL requested the video from "the police"--we now know they requested from the wrong police department at some point--"numerous times" but were "refused."

So . . . in April, they receive the video.

They confirm they have the video.

Did Godell . . . "forget?" Did he want the video but then . . . by April decide . . . "Nyah! I don't need no video."

--J.D.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Anaxagoras »

Doctor X wrote:Per your other question, they were authorized to release the video to the NFL.
But the last paragraph of that article says:
As the New Jersey Attorney General's office said yesterday, "It would have been illegal for law enforcement to provide (the) Rice video to (the) NFL."
Here's another article specifically about that:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/9/61 ... -video-tmz
NJ attorney general says giving NFL casino elevator footage would have been illegal
A spokesman for the attorney general's office told ABC News on Tuesday afternoon it would have been illegal to give the NFL a copy of the video. This remains consistent with the NFL's statements that requests for the video were denied.
Nevertheless, I agree that Godell's story doesn't seem to add up. Did they get the video but not watch it because they believed that it had been obtained illegally? Of course, that's not the story they are giving, however. Although exactly what the truth is, is unclear, it seems to be something other than what they said it was.
Doctor X
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Doctor X »

Anaxagoras wrote:
Doctor X wrote:Per your other question, they were authorized to release the video to the NFL.
But the last paragraph of that article says:
As the New Jersey Attorney General's office said yesterday, "It would have been illegal for law enforcement to provide (the) Rice video to (the) NFL."
[Engage Clausian Denial Mode--Ed.]

And, exactly, what have YOU done about skepticism? It is horrible to see a mind like yours go.

Won't be long now.

[Disengage Clausian Denial Mode--Ed.]

You are correct. :oops:

What I heard was that the police could provide the video if a particular request--requiring a form not actually a B27-6--is filed and ruled upon favorably.

I assumed that that is what happened.

It appears, at this point, it was not "approved." There is question as to whether or not the request was ever properly made.
Nevertheless, I agree that Godell's story doesn't seem to add up. Did they get the video but not watch it because they believed that it had been obtained illegally? Of course, that's not the story they are giving, however.
And we have a recording from a woman at the NFL who admits to watching it. A leak--and it may have been an "official" leak because, Heavens to Betsy, the police and prosecution offices sometimes leak materials that are not exactly legal to leak http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u264 ... fc871a.gif
Although exactly what the truth is, is unclear, it seems to be something other than what they said it was.
It is pissing people off. After my last post, I was listening to various sports opinions. It was revealed this was not an "Official Release" :oops: but not confirmed it was not an "Unofficial Official Release" :P but "who cares! This is not hearsay! You can see the video!"

Worse, for Godell, the OWNER of the Ravens has stated that this video matches exactly what Ray-Ray told him when questioned about it. So . . . he told the truth to the owner but not Godell?

He may actually "go." A very powerful owner spoke on Godell's behalf before this latest revelation. Robert Kraft does not like to be lied to. The Ravens owner is also powerful and outspoken. The fact he made clear that what Ray-Ray told him matched the video undercuts the attempts by Godell to pretend it showed him something new.

Quite a few Sports Shows have been playing Rick "15 Seconds . . . DONE! John Holmes is Not Walking Through That Door, Honey!" Pitino's "if you lie about your past, it becomes a part of your future" apology. Godell, apparently, has not learned this.

--J.D.
Doctor X
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Doctor X »

. . . and now . . . NOW--see what I did there?--is calling for Go(o)dell's resignation.

--J.D.
Grammatron
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspe......Fuck that, let's talk about Ray R

Post by Grammatron »

http://i.imgur.com/SSJJiWK.png