Quick poker tournaments?

Stump your fellow simians.
RCC
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Quick poker tournaments?

Post by RCC »

Just looking for an interest level for a quick single table (or maybe larger) online tournament.

A formerly sooper-seekrit free play money site has gone public. The people that run it are looking for some extra traffic. They have single table tournaments of various sizes, no real money involved.

It is at this point less than busy, so if a bunch of us wanted to set a time and meet there we could take over a table and play a tournament.

The site is at www.qogs.com
The QOGS Community Game Server is a fun and free way to play poker with other people on the internet. We are not a gambling site — the games are not for real money and there is no way to deposit funds. However, we do have daily promotions in which we give away real money to our players, and this fosters a competitive spirit and good learning environment. Read more about the QOGS community and the games we have in the About QOGS section.
I figured I'd post this so that anyone interested could check the site out.
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Re: Quick poker tournaments?

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

I'd be interested, but as I'm in the UK I could only join in when I'm on nights due to the time difference or maybe after the pub.

But yeah - I'll have a bash.
Bearguin
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Post by Bearguin »

Just waiting for the confirm email.
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

Signed up.
Bearguin
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Post by Bearguin »

Sounds like a duck to me. Charley had his sound off.

Is that the way it's suppossed to sound?

Anyway, left up $48.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

If anyone wants to get their quack on at qogs this weekend lem me know.

If we can get three people and a time we can play one of the three player freeroll qualifers.
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

I have most of Saturday from 8 AM Pacific till about 2 PM available.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth wrote:I have most of Saturday from 8 AM Pacific till about 2 PM available.
11AM to 5pm eastern I think...

I can be there. A third and a time in that window and we are set...
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Warning, though: I suck.

Or is that the point??!? Get three people to play, one does well and qualifies?
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth wrote:Warning, though: I suck.

Or is that the point??!? Get three people to play, one does well and qualifies?
You get 50 freeroll points if you win. Each night there is a 100 point tournament that pays $30 bucks to the winner.

Oddly enough, I just won tonight's a few minutes ago. :db:
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Congratulations!

I'm downloading the client now.
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

RCC wrote:
Beleth wrote:I have most of Saturday from 8 AM Pacific till about 2 PM available.
11AM to 5pm eastern I think...

I can be there. A third and a time in that window and we are set...
I'm available from 4pm eastern for three hours if that's any good. Send us a PM if it's a go.
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Hey RCC -

I've been practicing with the FunBots and I don't suck as badly against bots as I do against people. Anyway, I have some questions.

I've figured out what the Auto Post, Auto Muck, and Sit Out boxes do, but what are the Auto Straddle and Chop Blinds boxes for? And how does the Rake work?
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth wrote:Hey RCC -

I've been practicing with the FunBots and I don't suck as badly against bots as I do against people. Anyway, I have some questions.

I've figured out what the Auto Post, Auto Muck, and Sit Out boxes do, but what are the Auto Straddle and Chop Blinds boxes for? And how does the Rake work?
Auto Straddle means that you automatically blindly double the big blind when you are first to act preflop. Something that people do to gamb00l when they play poker.

The chop blind button means that you are chopping blinds. In a ring (not tournament) game in real life if everyone folds to the blinds the blinds often agree to take back their blinds and the hand ends. This is to speed up the game and avoid rake. Many players do not like to play the blind versus a blind hand.

The rake is kind of silly on this site, seeing that it is play money, but it takes I think 5% of the pot at certain intervals up to 3$. In real life this is how the house makes money on the game. In this context I guess it is just there for simulation purposes.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth and I are sitting at a table waiting for a third...

Don't worry... I'll be gentle :twisted:
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

RCC wrote:Beleth and I are sitting at a table waiting for a third...

Don't worry... I'll be gentle :twisted:
Typical - I go home in 25 mins.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

we can take care of you quick...

(they are short games)
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

RCC wrote:we can take care of you quick...

(they are short games)
I know, I've been arseing about on that for a few days. Gotta do so work stuff before handing over to next shift.

Tomorrow's ok though.
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

RCC is indeed being gentle.

It's these pickup thirds that are tearing me a new one.
slimshady2357
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Post by slimshady2357 »

Ok, I've signed up and am waiting for the e-mail.

I'll check into this thread for the next time people can get together and play :)

Adam
RCC
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Post by RCC »

I'm going to be hanging around in there up to the freeroll at 10PM eastern...
Bearguin
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Post by Bearguin »

So what is it with the quacking (or as Charlie described it, a duck fucking a fish?)?
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Bearguin wrote:So what is it with the quacking (or as Charlie described it, a duck fucking a fish?)?
I have no clue.

I think it was answered on the old qogs forum, but they took that down when they did the public launch. I don't remember the answer.
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

So, Suddenly... what was I doing that was making me suck so badly?

And that last all-in wasn't me testing you, it was me in a final act of desperation!
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth wrote:So, Suddenly... what was I doing that was making me suck so badly?

And that last all-in wasn't me testing you, it was me in a final act of desperation!

(WARNING.... MASSIVE OVERKILL ANSWER AHEAD)


The short version is that your play was way, way too passive.

We were playing 3 handed NL tournaments where the blinds increase rapidly and where only the winner gets anything. As you have fewer and fewer players the need for aggression becomes greater and greater anyway, but in a tournamant structure the only way to survive is by eliminating all opponents, so the need for aggression is even greater.

Here is a thought experiment that might help explain.

Say you entered one of these tournaments and went all in every single hand.

Once people realized what you were doing they would wait around and try to call with larger than normal hands. They have a double bind. If they are too careful in selection, the blinds gradually build up and you get a chip advantage. If they are too liberal they stand the chance of losing.

Even if you get called by AK when you have 49, you really aren't that big of an underdog. In fact, the only really staggering underdog preflop situations in texas holdem are the rare AA v. A9 confrontations of a pair against a card of that rank and a lower card.

So, the first time you are called, you are likely to have about a 35% chance or better to double up. Decent ballpark guess, all things considered seeing the more selective the opponent is the more blinds you steal. This is a complex problem in that regard...

So, you lose 65% of the time. The other 35% of the time you have a 2-1 chip lead on the other player. Actually in reality it is better than that as since you have been stealing blinds you will still have some chips left versus better than 2-1.

You then continue to move all in every hand against the third player, who is in dire straits indeed. Not only are the blinds being stolen, but this player has to win two all ins to get your chips. So....

If we stick to the 35% figure, he has a .65 * .65 chance of winning, or about 42%. So, if he has to win twice you are actually a 58% favorite at this point to win moving all in every hand. (In reality if he wins the first then you have to win twice, but here is where I am evening out the fact that I have not accounted for a penny of the stolen blinds so lets ignore that)

Then if we compound my general madness we get .35 * .58 which is a 20% chance of winning. Even if we cut that in half we have our brainless all in bot winning one of 10 tournaments.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Usually in poker the idea for a beginner is to be passive, as to not lose a carload of money right off the bat. This makes sense in a cash game, as to error on the side of meekness limits risk.

However, in tournament play in general , and shorthanded tournament play in particular, it is better to error on the side of aggression. It is an error to either extreme, but at least the aggressive player will at some point catch a few hands and bust some people and maybe win. Since it is a tournament, the loss has been preset in the form of the entry fee. There is no fear of a big loss since all places outside the money win the same amount, and taking into account the time spent it can be argued that a person first out of a tournament paying one place is the true second place finisher...

So I'm not saying that you need to move all in every hand. Just consider that that extreme is likely to be much more successful than being very timid.

Also consider that when you call you have one way to win, that is showing the best hand. When you bet you have two ways to win. Show the best hand, or if the other person folds. In a game like 3 handed texas holdem keep in mind that often no player really has much of a hand...

I was playing a little 3-handed limit game with a few friends a few years ago, and one of them and I were playing very aggressively. One hand I turned over some cheese like 47 offsuit that made a straight. I had raised preflop with it.

The other friend shook his head, and said "I might call with garbage like that, but I'd never raise with it."

That is when I realized one basic reason why most people lose at poker. They think the progression of hand strength should be:

fold
call
raise

Where the worst hands are folded and the best raised. This looks reasonable, but it is way wrong, as not only are you being quite intuitive to those trying to read you, you are also scaring action off of the better hands and making it hard to win with the marginal ones. Better is:

fold
raise
call


even better is

fold
raise
call
raise

in that the best playable hands now look like the lesser ones.





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The hole in no limit texas holdem as a game is that moving all-in can be used by a lesser skilled player to lower the edge of a better player. David Sklansky (a well known poker theorist) came up with what is known as "The System," a way of playing no-limit tournaments by recipe. The player does a simple calculation regarding the size of the blinds and antes, the number of players in the hand, and the players own hand to decide whether to move all in or fold. No other actions are taken. Using this, most any person can be a decently competitive (and maddening) opponent to even a world class player whose advantage is mainly in postflop play.

As a test of skill, pot limit holdem is a much better game than no limit, as it allows for different sized bets but does not allow the simple preflop push in. However, because of the simplicity, dramatic nature, and televison popularity, no-limit is now king.
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

Not talking to you.
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

Me, or RCC?

If it's me, lemme explain - my dialup connection just decides to crap all over itself sometimes. Yesterday was one of those times. Sorry about that!
Beleth
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Post by Beleth »

RCC wrote:The short version is that your play was way, way too passive.
That was not overkill - thanks!

I also felt like I was rushed. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I unintentionally got marked as "sitting out" in the bot game once, and I vowed to never let that happen again.
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

I'm talking to you now.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Beleth wrote:Me, or RCC?

If it's me, lemme explain - my dialup connection just decides to crap all over itself sometimes. Yesterday was one of those times. Sorry about that!
Me. He raised the minimum with AcKc and I called with Qs 3s.

Flop was Qh Qc Qd

He bet the flop and moved in on the turn.

I called... not until after making a smart comment in chat :twisted:

A few hands later he moved in on me with PRESTO and I called with a pair of jacks...

The jacks somehow managed to win, busting him, and he was upset, despite that being a sign of his own lack of faith in the HOLY PRESTO..


He should feel better now. As I was typing this I raised preflop with 47 ofsuit and he called with K7 off...

the the flop came 27J, he called a bet, the turn was another 7, and he busted me on the very first hand.

Hatstand I say. Complete hatstand...
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

Beleth wrote:Me, or RCC?
Sorry B.

Just played RCC on qogs. I was holding AK and flopped QQQ and went all in. No way could I loose up until I found out that fugger had a Q already.

Fortunately, In the second game I annhiliated the big girls blouse in...the...first...hand.


MWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


CHARLEY$maverick
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

RCC wrote:
I called... not until after making a smart comment in chat :twisted:
Actually - I didn't notice that - what was it?
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Good example of the type of aggressive play that makes sense in a three handed no-limit tournament but not too often in other contexts...

I am dealt 9s3c on the small blind. I have about 600 in chips, both Charley and the other guy have about 1200, blinds 25 and 50. Charley folds, and I with the powerhouse raise to 150. Can't only raise with monsters 3 handed....

Flop comes down 7h 8c Tc, giving me a open ended straight draw and little else. The other guy has a habit of making minimum bets when I check to him. I check, he bets 50.

What do you do? There is 350 in the pot, I have 450 remaining.

If I fold I am pretty crippled and am passing on a pretty good draw. I likely have 8 outs. Given the way the hand has come down very few hands he calls a raise with have me drawing dead.

If I call I must hit to win, and I don't need to bleed off chips...

So... I move all in. If he has no decent hand I win right out, and if he calls I have two cards to hit my draw. I'll be getting nearly 2-1 on my money so if my straight outs are good I'm getting decent odds. If he has an underpair (55 - 22) I'm in good shape as my pair is good.

He calls with 66, an underpair and a draw to the ignorant end of the straight. However, the turn and river are jacks so I win the pot.

I looked like a goof getting lucky and sucking out, but I think it was a solid play. Just one of those weird things...

66 was one of the worst hands for me. He has two of my 8 outs, and if I pair my nine he makes a straight. Worse yet, even if I hit my 6 on the turn he then has a set and a redraw to a full house...

However, I thought that a terrible call by the other guy all in on that board against a preflop raiser. Almost any decent hand not a semibluff has 66 in very, very bad shape...

If the stack sizes are different my play is less certain, or in the start of a larger tournament where the money is deep... Weird game, this 3 handed.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:
RCC wrote:
I called... not until after making a smart comment in chat :twisted:
Actually - I didn't notice that - what was it?
"tee hee!!"

Although I may have misspelled it...

Just for you chuckles... looks like I had a few details off...
qogs wrote: Hand 4567852:

Table Cheddar (50pt Freeroll Qualifier NL Holdem; T)
Hand 4567852
Seat 1: CHARLEY_BIGTIME (London) - T1000.00
Seat 2: card4 (Jacksonville) - T1000.00
Seat 3: Suddenly (Charleston) - T1000.00
The game is Holdem
card4 has the button
Suddenly blinds T10.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME blinds T25.00
card4 has the button
Dealing hand 4567852 of Holdem to seats 1, 2, and 3
Seats 3, 1, and 2 are each dealt a card
Your hole card is 7d
Seats 3, 1, and 2 are each dealt a card
Your hole card is 4c
Dealer: cowhunter has left the table
card4 did not act in time
card4 is sitting out
card4 folds
Suddenly raises T25.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME calls T25.00
Pot 1 is T100.00
Rake is T0.00
Community card 7h
Community card 6d
Community card As
Suddenly bets T50.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME calls T50.00
Pot 1 is T200.00
Rake is T0.00
Community card 7s
Suddenly bets T50.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME raises T50.00
Dealer: kjw22ballin has joined the table
Suddenly calls T50.00
Pot 1 is T400.00
Rake is T0.00
Community card Qh
Suddenly checks
CHARLEY_BIGTIME bets T100.00
Suddenly raises T300.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME raises T300.00
Suddenly raises T100.00
Suddenly is all in
CHARLEY_BIGTIME calls T100.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME is all in
Pot 1 is T2000.00
Rake is T0.00
Betting action is complete
CHARLEY_BIGTIME shows: [7c Kc]
Suddenly shows: [7d 4c]
CHARLEY_BIGTIME shows: [7c Kc] -- Trips, sevens, A-K kickers
Suddenly shows: [7d 4c] -- Trips, sevens, A-Q kickers
Dealer: kjw22ballin has left the table
Suddenly mucks
CHARLEY_BIGTIME wins T2000.00 from pot 1
Suddenly busts in place #3 and receives payout of 0.00
RCC
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Post by RCC »

Just to keep things on an even keel tho...
qogs wrote:
Table Cottage (50pt Freeroll Qualifier NL Holdem; T)
Hand 4567720
Seat 1: bmmort (Third Rock) - T575.00
Seat 2: CHARLEY_BIGTIME (London) - T1610.00
Seat 3: Suddenly (Charleston) - T815.00
The game is Holdem
bmmort has the button
CHARLEY_BIGTIME blinds T50.00
Suddenly blinds T100.00
bmmort has the button
Dealing hand 4567720 of Holdem to seats 1, 2, and 3
Seats 2, 3, and 1 are each dealt a card
Your hole card is Qs
Seats 2, 3, and 1 are each dealt a card
Your hole card is 2s
bmmort folds
CHARLEY_BIGTIME raises T100.00
Suddenly calls T100.00
Pot 1 is T400.00
Rake is T0.00
Community card Qd
Community card Qc
Community card Qh
CHARLEY_BIGTIME bets T250.00
Suddenly calls T250.00
Pot 1 is T900.00
Rake is T0.00
Community card Td
CHARLEY_BIGTIME bets T1160.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME is all in
Suddenly: he he
Suddenly calls T365.00
Suddenly is all in
Pot 1 is T1630.00
Rake is T0.00
T795.00 returned to CHARLEY_BIGTIME
Betting action is complete
CHARLEY_BIGTIME shows: [Ac Kc]
Suddenly shows: [Qs 2s]
Community card 5c
Rake is T0.00
CHARLEY_BIGTIME shows: [Ac Kc] -- Trips, queens, A-K kickers
Suddenly shows: [Qs 2s] -- Quads, queens, T kicker
CHARLEY_BIGTIME mucks
Suddenly wins T1630.00 from pot 1
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

See - I was giving you a caning in that game too until you fluked it.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:See - I was giving you a caning in that game too until you fluked it.
Don't worry. Someday you will earn enough credits to sit with the big boys...

:rub:
CHARLEY_BIGTIME

Post by CHARLEY_BIGTIME »

RCC wrote:
CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:See - I was giving you a caning in that game too until you fluked it.
Don't worry. Someday you will earn enough credits to sit with the big boys...

:rub:
Hatstand . I've been too late twice now. Fuggin Pacific time don't work too well when you're 9 hours ahead.
RCC
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Post by RCC »

CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:
Hatstand . I've been too late twice now. Fuggin Pacific time don't work too well when you're 9 hours ahead.
I get confused and it's my own freaking country.

Except that it is the same time every day, so I don't sweat the conversion anymore...

Too bad you missed it. You could have had the honor of being beaten by me on my way to my second freeroll win....
slimshady2357
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Post by slimshady2357 »

Well I've been there fooling around with the Autobots :)

They've been hitting straights and sets on the river like it's fixed or something! :x

:D

I could probably be there tonight some time, around 6 or 7 EST.

Adam