Artemis (NASA moon mission)

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:40 am

I figured this one could use its own thread. Seems pretty cool. I wonder how soon it will happen.

It says the video is 4K, if you have a display big enough for that.

https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:11 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:42 am I'm very pessimistic about this actually happening.

We don't want a territorial disputes with India and China.

There may be reasons to be skeptical, but I don't think that's one of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

The treaty explicitly forbids any government to claim a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet.[12] Article II of the treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means." However, the state that launches a space object retains jurisdiction and control over that object.[13] The state is also liable for damages caused by its space object.[14]

It's a bit like Antarctica. No country is allowed to claim it, but any country is allowed to build, say, a research station there. (Actually, I was mistaken. Some countries do claim parts of Antarctica, but those claims are generally not recognized by other countries. In practice, it hasn't really been a problem so far. Maybe if someone discovers oil in Antarctica.)

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:17 am

As far as the naming of the mission (Artemis), the first NASA manned mission to the moon was Apollo, and in Greek mythology, Artemis was the twin sister of Apollo. She is also the goddess of the moon (as well as other things). So there's both a moon connection and an Apollo connection there.

sparks · Post by **sparks** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:59 pm

Megabucks.

Never happen.

But good on someone for having a job thinking about such drivel. :)

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 am

I expect the next people to walk on the moon, maybe fifteen years from now, will be Chinese.

It's still only wealthy nations that can afford a project like this. Even though it would be cheaper now, in real terms, than it was in the 1960s, I don't think the USA taxpayers want to fund a return trip - what would be the point? Remember that in the early 70s most of the public had become bored with Apollo after the first two or three landings. If it hadn't been for the plot-twist rescue mission Apollo 13 became, they'd have been bored even earlier.

The Chinese will be doing it for their first time, it will show off their technical and economic success, and the Chinese taxpayers won't get to vote - that's why I expect the Chinese to be next on the moon.

That may trigger a race between China and the USA for a manned Mars mission. That will be interesting, and I hope I live long enough to see it begin.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:45 am

Well they're basically saying, and it's an argument that makes sense to me, that to do a manned Mars mission we first should try something a little easier like this. Yeah, we've been to the moon before, but it was almost 50 years ago now and it would be a good way to test and improve the technology that we'll need to go to Mars.

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:15 am

There's no real scientific point in sending people to Mars, or the moon either. Any conceivable science mission can be done much more cheaply with unmanned missions.

The main reason for manned missions is because the public are more interested and involved, but the public quickly become bored. Who cares about the ISS right now? Other than space and technology nerds, no one. Only way for the space agencies to get the public interested in the ISS now would be a disaster or emergency.

I suppose if the ISS were turned over to an entertainment company, they could generate some interest - we could go through various stages of space porn - could sustain interest for a few years if planned properly.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:04 am

I actually agree with all that, but we're spending a huge amount of money on the military (including the new "space force" that Trump wanted) compared to NASA. In the last couple years, since 2017, the military budget was increased by about $100 billion. NASA's budget is only $21 billion total, and compared to 1966 it's a tiny part of the total federal budget. You could easily double or even triple NASA's budget for less than the increased amount of DoD spending. And still have more than enough left over to gradually increase the military budget in line with inflation.

So yes, given the current budget constraints of NASA, it might not be the best use of the money, but do we really need so many surface ships in the Navy or I don't know, but there's probably a lot of unnecessary stuff in the DoD budget. Ending our misadventures in the Middle East would also be a nice way to save money there.

Bananas?-Yes · Post by **Bananas?-Yes** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:37 am

I don't have that fancy language/vocabulary those head doctor folks have about the brain we ended up with after all that changing of this and that to get this version of human like we have now on this planet, so I'll have to just try that kitchen table style of explanation.

We have to be exploring something or somewhere, or both. This exploring style of the brain we have is partly what got us out of the caves, I think. Easier outdoor weather helped a whole bunch, too. But some human within the group is always that weird one that pisses off the others because that weird one is always turning over this or that rock to find out what is underneath and most of the time finding trouble which others may have to get her/him out of; BUT once in a while that turning over of the rock produces a surprise that draws all the other group members around in that circle and they go: What the heck is that?

And "that" turns out to be something that proves useful down the road.

True, after a bit that novelty of having discovered something usefully new wears off and that idiot rock-turning human goes back to being the source of jokes and all that.

Humans just have this thing of turning over rocks and finding all sorts of new stuff and then that new stuff seems to have benefit for all humans in a way that is super hard to measure. But I think if humans stop exploring then that is it for that group of animals on this planet and they'll be replaced by the next even more curious group of animals that have those weird ones in their group that turn over those rocks.

ceptimus · Post by **ceptimus** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:17 am

I agree with that, but the costs of sending humans to Mars are so high (transporting all the food, water, air, and other life support stuff humans need) that we could turn over ten times or a hundred times more Martian rocks for the same money by sending robots instead of humans.

To put in in terms of the cave man analogy, if our prehistoric explorers could have turned over more rocks by using very long sticks rather than climbing up/down to the rocks and using their hands, wouldn't they have chosen the easier, faster, and safer method?

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:09 pm

Use levers to turn over rocks, not bare hands. Good point. We are also a tool-using species and we should take full advantage of tools where tools can do the job better than human hands.

We haven't quite achieved that yet for all conceivable purposes because human hands are extremely fucking useful tools for so many things. But for many other purposes, there's a tool that's far better.

Bananas?-Yes · Post by **Bananas?-Yes** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:49 pm

I fully agree that we use machines as much as we can. No problem with that style of thinking.

But the ultimate goal has to be getting humans to be able to get to certain places and stay there for possibly economic reasons and so we need that research about living in conditions like zero gravity or little gravity and having to haul your own air and food and water and have an environment where sleep is possible and all that stuff which we pretty much take for granted on the surface of this planet.

That is the value of the ISS. And it is really amazing all the experiments they do and learn from.

One way to be able to better understand this and something that helps me with my own medical trouble. I'm in my late sixties and that is mighty good when we think about what we learn from the history papers that one thousand years ago the life expectancy was maybe the forties or fifties in some cases.

I mean, human history has been one long experiment. We learn that this or that is good for us and pass around that information and it is so many little everyday things we do that help us stay alive longer and longer and longer and that has got to be the same way we will eventually survive off the surface of this planet, whether it is in zero gravity situations, or whatever that gravity is on that Moon rock or that Mars place.

Anyway, I have it on good authority that the former gov fella of California did some sort of work on that Mars place. I saw footage of him on Mars and somebody stated an image is worth a thousand words and the more words there are the truer it must be, yes? But the governments are all pretending that stuff is all Hollywood stuff and ain't true. I suspect from what I am reading in this thread, you folks also believe that he didn't go there.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:08 am

NASA released a new video about the mission.

It looks like they're planning to send women this time. That'll make it a kind of first.

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:02 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:45 pm Trans women? :)

BTW, I predict the USA will never land people on the moon again. :|

https://www.space.com/trump-moon-mining ... order.html

Comments are, as ever, hilarious.

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:16 am

Beltah Loadah!

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:33 am

Anaxagoras wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:08 amIt looks like they're planning to send women this time. That'll make it a kind of first.

– J.D.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:02 pm

Another NASA video about this mission:

Rob Lister · Post by **Rob Lister** » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:58 pm

It was pretty good at explaining 2 of the 3 legs. It utterly skipped the part about what they are going to do while they are there. It's okay, we know: pick up some more rocks. Take some more soil samples. Maybe play a round of golf. Waste money.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:24 am

Rob Lister wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:58 pm It was pretty good at explaining 2 of the 3 legs. It utterly skipped the part about what they are going to do while they are there. It's okay, we know: pick up some more rocks. Take some more soil samples. Maybe play a round of golf. Waste money.

Practice for going to Mars I think. Can they successfully grow crops on the moon? Can they build a habitat in which people can live comfortably (or at least live, if not comfortably).

If you really want to go to Mars, you should probably practice on the moon first. Maybe they'll only figure out what a spectacularly bad idea it would be to send people to Mars. Even that would have a certain value. :notsure:

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:30 am

Well, they are due to make their first launch in a few hours, if everything goes to plan.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:48 am

And they have stopped loading hydrogen due to a pressure spike. They are troubleshooting, but who knows.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:12 am

Looks like they got that problem resolved and are back to filling hydrogen again. But the sensor that showed a problem is still showing some hydrogen, although apparently at acceptable levels.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:52 am

Starting to look doubtful that they're going to launch today. Still trying to formulate a new troubleshooting plan for a stuck bleed valve. They stopped the countdown clock at T minus 40 minutes and have been holding there.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:45 pm

Launch scrubbed, oh well.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:56 am

Watching NASA live. Wish they'd STFU and run the tech channels instead.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:12 am

Good question about why send people? Seriously, is it really necessary to risk human life?

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:27 am

Just tuned in. Looks like they held the countdown at T minus 10 minutes

Will they finally get it off?

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:33 am

Pyrrho wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:56 am Watching NASA live. Wish they'd STFU and run the tech channels instead.

I completely agree. I don't care about interviewing random people who came to watch the launch. I guess they are just filling time.

Silence would be fine as far as I'm concerned, with periodic updates on the technical issues.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:00 am

Waiting for the new T-0 and then I will decide if I should go back to sleep.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:22 am

The can send a man to Mars before they can finish counting votes!

Too soon?

– J.D.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:23 am

:freedom:

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:24 am

Gawd NASA, cut to the chase already.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:31 am

They are saying that it may be ready to start the countdown soon.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:39 am

T minus 10 minutes and counting!

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:54 am

Success! So far. Now I have to go back to sleep.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:02 am

Yeah, I've seen enough. Back to work.

Glad it didn't explode.

Doctor X · Post by **Doctor X** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:40 am

We can go to Mars but we cannot count the votes!

#WAKE UP PIGGLES!!!1!!!

Wibble.

Insert Uranus joke here.

Not me.

No, I have not been drinking.

– J.D.

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:52 am

Pyrrho wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:12 am Good question about why send people? Seriously, is it really necessary to risk human life?

US population expansion means you need more high schools.

Anaxagoras · Post by **Anaxagoras** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:16 am

Hotarubi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:52 am
Pyrrho wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:12 am Good question about why send people? Seriously, is it really necessary to risk human life?
US population expansion means you need more high schools.

Fun factoid:

The population of the world reached 8 billion yesterday. Every day it increases by about 200,000. The net result of 385,000 babies being born and 185,000 people dying every day. The county where I grew up has a population of 100,000. It's like two new counties or middling cities of people every day. Sometimes it staggers me to stop and consider how many people there are. So maybe in that context, if we were rational about it, a few lives here or there wouldn't matter that much. They are volunteers after all. They know the risks.

If we were even more rational, we'd probably realize that this is sort of like climbing Mount Everest. What's the point exactly? "Because it's there!" And hundreds have died attempting to climb it. It happens almost every year.

If it were only about science, I agree that there's no point in sending people. But maybe it's a baby step on a long journey for humanity to someday in some distant future become an interplanetary species. :notsure:

Hotarubi · Post by **Hotarubi** » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:31 pm

So, you see a future where humans inhabit uranus.

No I haven't been drinking.