The Dune Thread

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm

I consider his novel The White Plague

one of the best

Is it science fiction? Not really

Same for the Santaroga barrier

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:04 pm

I call him a PsiFi writer. Nearly all his novels require supernatural abilities for the plots to work.

The White Plague is an exception, as is Hellstrom's Hive.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:33 am

https://i.imgur.com/UtMujHN.jpg

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:40 am

asthmatic camel wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:04 pm I call him a PsiFi writer. Nearly all his novels require supernatural abilities for the plots to work.

The White Plague is an exception, as is Hellstrom's Hive.

What about the Dragon in the Sea?

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:24 am

I forgot that one. To be fair, when Herbert was writing, "psi powers" were a popular theme in SciFi, (think Spock's "mind-meld" and Star Wars' "Force"), and many scientists still took the subject seriously.

ed · Post by ed » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 am

Pirated it, thankfully.
Read it ba k in the day. The flick brought the horror back.

What a steaming pile of self referential, self conscious, oh too precious, self consciously arcane and opaque crap.

The plot holes in the movie were legion and fucking stupid.

How this pulsating heap of slime got made is beyond me.

Jesus, I thought major sedatives were controlled.

1 hour in and I was comatose.

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 am

asthmatic camel wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:56 pm Same here. More of a fantasy writer than the "hard SciFi" writers I really like but he gets a pass because he was so clever. :)

The Santaroga Barrier

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:19 am

robinson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 am
asthmatic camel wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:56 pm Same here. More of a fantasy writer than the "hard SciFi" writers I really like but he gets a pass because he was so clever. :)
The Santaroga Barrier

Was that the one with "Jaspers"? A kind of low-budget "Spice"? As I recall, it embued its users with supernatural abilites.

Herbert generally used a SciFi background to explore topics of interest to him: ecology, philosophy, theology, politics etc.

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:28 am

ed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 am Pirated it, thankfully.
Read it ba k in the day. The flick brought the horror back.

What a steaming pile of self referential, self conscious, oh too precious, self consciously arcane and opaque crap.

The plot holes in the movie were legion and fucking stupid.

How this pulsating heap of slime got made is beyond me.

Jesus, I thought major sedatives were controlled.

1 hour in and I was comatose.

Don't mince your words, ed, grow a pair and tell us how you really feel!

ed · Post by ed » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:30 am

Super advanced society with magic of all things and they use tractors to "mine" this crap that settles on the surface. A substance that they somehow cannot reverse engineer and create using bot-like beings like Bruce to turn out by the ton.

Got it.

Oh yeah, "helicopters" that cannot autorotate in an emergency. Jesus on a crutch.

ed · Post by ed » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:11 am

Then what is the response?

"Well, Frank Herbert was in his turgid phase when he wrote that. The tumor was removed shortly afterwards."

Oh oh oh

The "Battle for Arrakis" occurs in the nighttime!!! The warm bosom of comfort for inept filmmakers. Viz Game of Thrones Season 8.

And the "doctor" who has these arcane and mystical approaches to "medicine" that involve laying on of hands is the stereotypical chinese/thai/oriental racist type right out of Sax Rohmer's Fu Man Chu!!!! Amazing and hilarious. And they call him "Doctor" with a straight face. Like calling an idiot that puts heated glass jars on your back to "draw out the poisons" "Doctor".

And the characters have these weird dots on their faces. Sometimes on their lips, sometimes on their foreheads. They may even move around. No rhyme or reason, they are there. It is meant, I am sure, to illustrate in a "subtle" way some sort of future class system thus providing an opaque commentary on our own society.

Well, at least the Duke's thoroughly incompetent, to the point of complicity in his overthrow, head of security is a jovial, fat Chinese looking fucker.

In fact, come to think of it, the Duke's entire staff, down to his duplicitous concubine, are disloyal or incompetent. Duncan "Idaho" my left testicle. Can anyone here spell "contrived"?

It's coming back to me now, why I thought that the original book was a piece of amateurish crap. Whenever there was a plot hole, or something incongruous or simply inexplicable in the storyline, it was explained away by treachery. That was the Deus ex machina of Herbert. Sloppy and simplistic. And he conjured up all these advanced trappings of an advanced civilization to divert attention from his ineptitude as a storyteller.

And the treachery only went one way: to House Atrides.

I am getting worked up now.

ETA I am changing my name to Horace Cincinnati.

ed · Post by ed » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:53 pm

BTW ... the fuckers use METRIC to add insult to injury.

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:55 pm

ed · Post by ed » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:20 am

That was the crowning insult.

"The worms are up to 400 meters long"

I heard that I almost vomited.

It is like that wonderfully dismissive remark by Edward I (in Braveheart)

"Irish"

"Metric"

https://i.imgur.com/qEzMLin.gif

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 am

Of all the fantasy, the sand worms of Dune are the most unbelievable

Seriously. Not anything about them is physically possible

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:46 am

But once you just suspend disbelief about them

It’s all just great fun and adventure

ed · Post by ed » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:47 am

So is "Cat in a Hat"

ed · Post by ed » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:24 am

Nyarlathotep wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:28 am Since summer I have been reading the Dune series. The original six Frank Herbert novels, plus the two sequels written by his son. FINALLY finished the last one today (Sandworms of Dune).

I note that soon after finishing this series of "books", Nyarl started acting erratically, behavior that culminated in his disappearance which pre-dated the release of the movie by mere weeks.

Draw your own conclusions.

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:22 pm

The second DUNE movie is a go

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:25 am

robinson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:46 am But once you just suspend disbelief about them

It’s all just great fun and adventure

Despite all ed's griping, the book clearly made a lasting impression. Isn't that what art's supposed to be all about, to provoke an emotional response?

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:47 am

Indeed.

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:40 pm

https://i.imgur.com/L9rziOF.jpg

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:52 pm

The Dude certainly abides

ed · Post by ed » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:16 pm

asthmatic camel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:25 am
robinson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:46 am But once you just suspend disbelief about them

It’s all just great fun and adventure
Despite all ed's griping, the book clearly made a lasting impression. Isn't that what art's supposed to be all about, to provoke an emotional response?

So did my last colonoscopy.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:52 pm

ed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:11 am

In fact, come to think of it, the Duke's entire staff, down to his duplicitous concubine, are disloyal or incompetent. Duncan "Idaho" my left testicle. Can anyone here spell "contrived"?

It's coming back to me now, why I thought that the original book was a piece of amateurish crap. Whenever there was a plot hole, or something incongruous or simply inexplicable in the storyline, it was explained away by treachery. That was the Deus ex machina of Herbert. Sloppy and simplistic. And he conjured up all these advanced trappings of an advanced civilization to divert attention from his ineptitude as a storyteller.

And the treachery only went one way: to House Atrides.

I am getting worked up now.

ETA I am changing my name to Horace Cincinnati.

That was one of the point of the story. Humanity is doomed because it's predictable and will fail due to treachery or AI. Until the Golden Path is ushered.

ed · Post by ed » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:46 pm

You said it in 20 words. Got it.

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:51 pm

ed wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:46 pm You said it in 20 words. Got it.

I'm more verbose in speaking than writing. If you want to have a long conversation on this, I'm available. But I am not writing out Dune's worth of words to defend the work I didn't write.

ed · Post by ed » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:59 pm

Evasion noted.

You cannot defend the indefensible.

Sandworms... <spit>

Grammatron · Post by **Grammatron** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:05 pm

And yet you have Fremen in your avatar.

ed · Post by ed » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:20 pm

I, too, am a river (of sorts)

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:25 am

https://earthandhuman.org/most-polluted ... the-world/

ed · Post by ed » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:07 am

asthmatic camel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:25 am https://earthandhuman.org/most-polluted ... the-world/

I call bullshit on any list that puts any American river on the same footing as the fucking corpse laden Ganges.

Jesus Christ. The Ganges? With record size turtles that feed on human flesh?

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:45 pm

The Ganges is purified within minutes of all pollution

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:46 pm

And global warming will kill billions by 2010

ed · Post by ed » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:47 pm

As I said, turtles.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com ... f=1&nofb=1

Up to 12' long and ravenous.

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:50 pm

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/w ... ng-turtles

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:50 pm

And they tasted good as well

robinson · Post by **robinson** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:51 pm

Now back to the extinct desert planet …

Which has not a single sandworm left

Pyrrho · Post by **Pyrrho** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:15 pm

https://i.imgur.com/AMha84F.png

asthmatic camel · Post by **asthmatic camel** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:24 am

I enjoyed Dune in the same way as TLOR: it's pure escapism. Now, if you want real SciFi, I've got a very long list...