Got a brit sorta question

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ed
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Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

I am watching Upstairs Downstairs which has many pleasant associations, viz.
https://i.imgur.com/o2DNEJ2.jpg

But I have a question about property. The Bellamys don't own 165 Easton Place, they own a lease. I have read that these property leases are sold as if they are property. Question is who holds title, who really owns it?

I read somewhere that the Duke of Westminster owns London. Cannot you actually buy property? WTF is going on over there?
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

It's a complex issue, ed. I own my own home freehold, it used to be common for the landowners to grant a leasehold for the remainder of 999 years and charge a small annual ground rent/chief rent. That's changed recently and the landowners are charging whopping ground rents for a short term lease.

This may help. https://www.reallymoving.com/conveyanci ... s-freehold
Hotarubi
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by Hotarubi »

ed wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:15 pm
I read somewhere that the Duke of Westminster owns London. Cannot you actually buy property? WTF is going on over there?
The DoW does not own London Just a significant part of the posh areas such as Mayfair and Belgravia.

US equivalent would be someone owning Hudson Yards and Tribeca.

Some idiot forgot to sign something on the paperwork because the DoW is a registered as a benfeciary not an owner of his £12 billion fortune and property empire. Purely by accident and because of some incompetent now sleeping at the bottom of the Thames, this meant that he avoided inheritance tax upon the death of his father.

How fortuitous.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

The real difference is that, as a freeholder, I can do pretty much anything I like to and in my property, (So long as I comply with building regulations and don't cause a nuisance to my neighbours.) Leaseholders can be subjected to all sorts of limitations and will have to pay the landowner what are now quite substantial ground rents. It's become such an issue that a bill is up for review at Westminster. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-9236/
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

So only "the better sort" actually own land?

Interesting feudal vestige, no?
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

BTW, just got another one of these things
https://www.centuryarms.com/media/catal ... cher_8.jpg
It is a real grenade launcher as opposed to what I sell or the m79/203 which is really light artillery (IMHO).

Oddly, it seems to be restricted in Blighty (!). Now I need to find a nice Mills Bomb.
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

asthmatic camel wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:18 pm It's a complex issue, ed. I own my own home freehold, it used to be common for the landowners to grant a leasehold for the remainder of 999 years and charge a small annual ground rent/chief rent. That's changed recently and the landowners are charging whopping ground rents for a short term lease.

This may help. https://www.reallymoving.com/conveyanci ... s-freehold
Got it. The leasehold thing is common down here in mobile home parks (which don't seem to have the stigma they do up north). People buy the home and lease the land.

It also sounds to me that "leasehold" is like renting. I suspect that there are nuances. The Bellamy's own a lease but I did not get the impression that they owned the structure.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

Hotarubi wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:56 pm
ed wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:15 pm
I read somewhere that the Duke of Westminster owns London. Cannot you actually buy property? WTF is going on over there?
The DoW does not own London Just a significant part of the posh areas such as Mayfair and Belgravia.

US equivalent would be someone owning Hudson Yards and Tribeca.

Some idiot forgot to sign something on the paperwork because the DoW is a registered as a benfeciary not an owner of his £12 billion fortune and property empire. Purely by accident and because of some incompetent now sleeping at the bottom of the Thames, this meant that he avoided inheritance tax upon the death of his father.

How fortuitous.
Tax planning is good, (I do it), tax evasion and avoidance are not good. In fact it's fucking wicked when you're so wealthy you'd barely notice the difference anyway. With some luck, the DoW will encounter an unfortunate "accident" and end up floating down the Thames, bottom-up.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

ed wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:08 pm
asthmatic camel wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:18 pm It's a complex issue, ed. I own my own home freehold, it used to be common for the landowners to grant a leasehold for the remainder of 999 years and charge a small annual ground rent/chief rent. That's changed recently and the landowners are charging whopping ground rents for a short term lease.

This may help. https://www.reallymoving.com/conveyanci ... s-freehold
Got it. The leasehold thing is common down here in mobile home parks (which don't seem to have the stigma they do up north). People buy the home and lease the land.

It also sounds to me that "leasehold" is like renting. I suspect that there are nuances. The Bellamy's own a lease but I did not get the impression that they owned the structure.
ed, when I bought my property it was leasehold. With the remainder of the lease running for 999 years. The ground rent was fixed at £1 a year, (probably a couple of week's wages for the average Joe in 1898 when it was built.) The landowners couldn't be bothered collecting it because it would have cost them more than it was worth, so they granted me and my neighbours freehold. Times have changed.
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

ed wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:51 pm BTW, just got another one of these things
https://www.centuryarms.com/media/catal ... cher_8.jpg
It is a real grenade launcher as opposed to what I sell or the m79/203 which is really light artillery (IMHO).

Oddly, it seems to be restricted in Blighty (!). Now I need to find a nice Mills Bomb.
Forgive my ignorance but why on earth would you want one of those?
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

To put on my Enfield, silly.

https://i.imgur.com/KU4VlEL.jpg

:roll:

actually I have two now.

Joy.
robinson
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by robinson »

You never know when you might need to launch some grenadine
asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

Jeebus. I'm trying to empty my house in preparation for the day when we can no longer manage the stairs. Fancy my collection of Air Rifles? Yours for cost of postage.
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

I've decided that I am not going to worry about my kids inheriting. If I see something I will, Raven-like, mutter

"oooohhhh ... pretty. Want"

When I snuff it there will be more shit here than you can imagine. And guess what? It ain't my problem.
Hotarubi
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by Hotarubi »

ed wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:18 am I've decided that I am not going to worry about my kids inheriting. If I see something I will, Raven-like, mutter

"oooohhhh ... pretty. Want"

When I snuff it there will be more shit here than you can imagine. And guess what? It ain't my problem.
Have you got one of them "singing carp" things in your lounge?
ed
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by ed »

Hotarubi wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:24 am
ed wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:18 am I've decided that I am not going to worry about my kids inheriting. If I see something I will, Raven-like, mutter

"oooohhhh ... pretty. Want"

When I snuff it there will be more shit here than you can imagine. And guess what? It ain't my problem.
Have you got one of them "singing carp" things in your lounge?
Shot it. It irritated me.
asthmatic camel
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Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:53 pm
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

Hotarubi wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:24 am
ed wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:18 am I've decided that I am not going to worry about my kids inheriting. If I see something I will, Raven-like, mutter

"oooohhhh ... pretty. Want"

When I snuff it there will be more shit here than you can imagine. And guess what? It ain't my problem.
Have you got one of them "singing carp" things in your lounge?
ed what I desire is a pretty property up in the Pennines with a lovely view over the mountains Sadly, Mrs. Camel is a city girl, so it's not an option.

asthmatic camel
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Re: Got a brit sorta question

Post by asthmatic camel »

ed wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:18 am I've decided that I am not going to worry about my kids inheriting. If I see something I will, Raven-like, mutter

"oooohhhh ... pretty. Want"

When I snuff it there will be more shit here than you can imagine. And guess what? It ain't my problem.
Understood. Still, when I snuff it, I'd prefer it if my executors, (my nieces), didn't have to put up with a whole load of bullshit like selling my rifles.