My game with Phil Hellmuth

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shemp
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

My game with Phil Hellmuth

Post by shemp »

Phill Hellmuth sometimes shows up on Ultimate Bet and plays low-level stakes with us losers. Tonight, I jumped in on 2 tables he played at. First he played some $3/$6 Triple Draw, then he went for some $2/$4 Limit Hold'em. I played at both tables, and about broke even, but had a lot of fun. What made it even better was that John Bonetti, another pro, was at both tables, and Phil's sister was there too, playing as "Kake." I took one pot off both Phil and Kake, and two off Bonetti.

None of the Triple Draw hands are worth presenting, but there were several Hold'em hands I'll present, mostly ones I won, but including one I lost. For those who don't know yet, I play as "edgourmet."

Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-349 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 22:48:36

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $149.50.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $196.
XWidowQueenX is at seat 2 with $45.75.
chrisjagon is at seat 3 with $200.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $198.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $200.
Kake is at seat 6 with $122.50.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $198.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $198.
Donovan174 is at seat 9 with $200.
The button is at seat 1.
The kill game is not active.

XWidowQueenX posts the small blind of $1.
chrisjagon posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: Ac Qc
XWidowQueenX: -- --
chrisjagon: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --

Pre-flop:

PhilHellmuth folds. Kake folds. funaaron222 folds.
Schilero Won folds. JohnBonetti folds. edgourmet
raises to $4. XWidowQueenX folds. chrisjagon calls.


Flop (board: Ah Qh 3s):

chrisjagon checks. edgourmet bets $2. chrisjagon
calls.

Turn (board: Ah Qh 3s Tc):

chrisjagon checks. edgourmet bets $4. chrisjagon
raises to $8. edgourmet calls.

River (board: Ah Qh 3s Tc 9c):

chrisjagon bets $4. edgourmet calls.



Showdown:

chrisjagon shows Th Ad.
chrisjagon has Th Ad Ah Qh Tc: two pair, aces and tens.
edgourmet shows Ac Qc.
edgourmet has Ac Qc Ah Qh Tc: two pair, aces and queens.


Hand #8080952-349 Summary:

$1.75 is raked from a pot of $37.
edgourmet wins $35.25 with two pair, aces and queens.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-375 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 23:10:54

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $163.50.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $200.25.
Chrisscott is at seat 2 with $171.75.
chrisjagon is at seat 3 with $193.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $217.75.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $178.75.
Kake is at seat 6 with $104.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $276.75.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $874.50.
Donovan174 is at seat 9 with $154.
The button is at seat 8.
The partial kill button is at seat 3.

Donovan174 posts the small blind of $1.
JohnBonetti posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: As Ad
Chrisscott: -- --
chrisjagon: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
Donovan174: -- --

Pre-flop:

edgourmet raises to $4. Chrisscott folds.
chrisjagon folds. PhilHellmuth folds. zenman1
folds. Kake folds. funaaron222 folds. Schilero
Won folds. Donovan174 folds. JohnBonetti calls.

Flop (board: 8s Th Kd):

JohnBonetti checks. edgourmet bets $2. JohnBonetti
calls.

Turn (board: 8s Th Kd 6s):

JohnBonetti checks. edgourmet bets $4. JohnBonetti
calls.

River (board: 8s Th Kd 6s 6c):

JohnBonetti checks. edgourmet bets $4. JohnBonetti
calls.



Showdown:

edgourmet shows As Ad.
edgourmet has As Ad Kd 6s 6c: two pair, aces and sixes.
JohnBonetti mucks cards.
(JohnBonetti has Td Jh.)


Hand #8080952-375 Summary:

$1.25 is raked from a pot of $29.
edgourmet wins $27.75 with two pair, aces and sixes.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-385 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 23:18:04

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $163.25.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $206.
Chrisscott is at seat 2 with $177.
chrisjagon is at seat 3 with $188.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $191.75.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $172.50.
Kake is at seat 6 with $87.25.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $330.25.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $852.50.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $200.
The button is at seat 8.
The partial kill button is at seat 7.

JohnBonetti posts the small blind of $1.
edgourmet posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: Qh Kd
Chrisscott: -- --
chrisjagon: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --

Pre-flop:

Chrisscott folds. chrisjagon folds. PhilHellmuth
folds. zenman1 folds. Kake calls. funaaron222
folds. Schilero Won calls. JohnBonetti calls.
edgourmet checks.

Flop (board: Js Td 9c):

JohnBonetti bets $2. edgourmet raises to $4. Kake
calls. Schilero Won folds. JohnBonetti calls.

Turn (board: Js Td 9c 2h):

JohnBonetti checks. edgourmet bets $4. Kake calls.
JohnBonetti calls.

River (board: Js Td 9c 2h 9s):

JohnBonetti checks. edgourmet bets $4. Kake folds.
JohnBonetti calls.



Showdown:

edgourmet shows Qh Kd.
edgourmet has Qh Kd Js Td 9c: straight, king high.
JohnBonetti mucks cards.
(JohnBonetti has Jh 7c.)


Hand #8080952-385 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $40.
edgourmet wins $38 with straight, king high.
----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #8080952-389 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 23:22:29

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $149.25.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $229.
Chrisscott is at seat 2 with $174.
chrisjagon is at seat 3 with $178.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $189.25.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $226.50.
Kake is at seat 6 with $77.25.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $326.25.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $829.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $182.
The button is at seat 3.
The partial kill button is at seat 4.

PhilHellmuth posts the small blind of $1.
zenman1 posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: Ac As
Chrisscott: -- --
chrisjagon: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

Kake folds. funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won calls.
vedder1321 folds. JohnBonetti folds. edgourmet
raises to $4. Chrisscott folds. chrisjagon folds.
PhilHellmuth calls. zenman1 folds. Schilero Won
calls.

Flop (board: Tc 3h 3d):

PhilHellmuth checks. Schilero Won bets $2.
edgourmet raises to $4. PhilHellmuth folds.
Schilero Won re-raises to $6. edgourmet calls.

Turn (board: Tc 3h 3d Qc):

Schilero Won bets $4. edgourmet calls.

River (board: Tc 3h 3d Qc 2c):

Schilero Won checks. edgourmet checks.



Showdown:

Schilero Won shows Td Kh.
Schilero Won has Td Kh Tc 3h 3d: two pair, tens and threes.
edgourmet shows Ac As.
edgourmet has Ac As 3h 3d Qc: two pair, aces and threes.


Hand #8080952-389 Summary:

$1.50 is raked from a pot of $34.
edgourmet wins $32.50 with two pair, aces and threes.
----------------------------------------------------------------


Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-390 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 23:23:19

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $149.25.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $247.50.
Chrisscott is at seat 2 with $174.
chrisjagon is at seat 3 with $178.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $185.25.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $224.50.
Kake is at seat 6 with $77.25.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $326.25.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $815.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $182.
The button is at seat 4.
The partial kill button is at seat 1.

zenman1 posts the small blind of $1.
Kake posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: 5d 5h
Chrisscott: -- --
chrisjagon: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won folds. vedder1321
folds. JohnBonetti folds. edgourmet calls.
Chrisscott folds. chrisjagon folds. PhilHellmuth
folds. zenman1 folds. Kake checks.

Flop (board: Ad 2c Kc):

Kake checks. edgourmet bets $2. Kake calls.

Turn (board: Ad 2c Kc 8h):

Kake checks. edgourmet checks.

River (board: Ad 2c Kc 8h 6h):

Kake checks. edgourmet checks.



Showdown:

Kake shows Td 3d.
Kake has Td Ad Kc 8h 6h: ace high.
edgourmet shows 5d 5h.
edgourmet has 5d 5h Ad Kc 8h: a pair of fives.


Hand #8080952-390 Summary:

$.25 is raked from a pot of $9.
edgourmet wins $8.75 with a pair of fives.

----------------------------------------------------------------



Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-422 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Sep/05 23:54:28

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $122.50.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $229.25.
Chrisscott is at seat 2 with $199.25.
ChChChChia is at seat 3 with $253.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $216.50.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $239.25.
Kake is at seat 6 with $0 (sitting out).
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $284.75.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $822.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $176.
The button is at seat 7.
The kill game is not active.

Schilero Won posts the small blind of $1.
vedder1321 posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: 5h Ah
Chrisscott: -- --
ChChChChia: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

JohnBonetti folds. edgourmet calls. Chrisscott
folds. ChChChChia folds. PhilHellmuth folds.
zenman1 folds. funaaron222 raises to $4. Schilero
Won re-raises to $6. vedder1321 folds. edgourmet
calls. funaaron222 calls.

Flop (board: Kc Jh 8h):

Schilero Won bets $2. edgourmet calls. funaaron222
calls.

Turn (board: Kc Jh 8h Kh):

Schilero Won bets $4. edgourmet raises to $8.
funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won folds. edgourmet is
returned $4 (uncalled).



Hand #8080952-422 Summary:

$1.50 is raked from a pot of $34.
edgourmet wins $32.50.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-429 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Sep/05 00:00:35

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $107.50.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $233.75.
bradyman1 is at seat 2 with $202.75.
ChChChChia is at seat 3 with $259.50.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $218.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $233.25.
Kake is at seat 6 with $100.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $276.75.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $812.75.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $190.50.
The button is at seat 4.
The kill game is not active.

zenman1 posts the small blind of $1.
Kake posts the big blind of $2.

JohnBonetti: -- --
edgourmet: Jc Jh
bradyman1: -- --
ChChChChia: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
zenman1: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won folds. vedder1321
folds. JohnBonetti folds. edgourmet raises to $4.
bradyman1 folds. ChChChChia folds. PhilHellmuth
folds. zenman1 folds. Kake calls.

Flop (board: 8c 4c Ac):

Kake checks. edgourmet bets $2. Kake folds.
edgourmet is returned $2 (uncalled).



Hand #8080952-429 Summary:

$.25 is raked from a pot of $9.
edgourmet wins $8.75.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-438 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Sep/05 00:07:52

JohnBonetti is at seat 0 with $111 (sitting out).
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $230.50.
bradyman1 is at seat 2 with $213.50.
ChChChChia is at seat 3 with $251.50.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $257.75.
zenman1 is at seat 5 with $228.25 (sitting out).
Kake is at seat 6 with $109.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $273.75.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $769.75.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $180.75.
The button is at seat 3.
The kill game is not active.

PhilHellmuth posts the small blind of $1.
Kake posts the big blind of $2.

edgourmet: 9c Ad
bradyman1: -- --
ChChChChia: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won folds. vedder1321
folds. edgourmet calls. bradyman1 folds.
ChChChChia folds. PhilHellmuth calls. Kake checks.


Flop (board: As 7d 6c):

PhilHellmuth checks. Kake bets $2. edgourmet calls.
PhilHellmuth raises to $4. Kake calls. edgourmet
calls.

Turn (board: As 7d 6c 3h):

PhilHellmuth bets $4. Kake calls. edgourmet calls.


River (board: As 7d 6c 3h Th):

PhilHellmuth bets $4. Kake calls. edgourmet calls.




Showdown:

PhilHellmuth shows 4c Ah.
PhilHellmuth has Ah As 7d 6c Th: a pair of aces.
Kake mucks cards.
(Kake has 8c 7c.)
edgourmet shows 9c Ad.
edgourmet has 9c Ad As 7d Th: a pair of aces, ten/nine kickers.


Hand #8080952-438 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $42.
edgourmet wins $40 with a pair of aces.
----------------------------------------------------------------


Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-443 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Sep/05 00:12:34

maverickdmb is at seat 0 with $192.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $252.50.
bradyman1 is at seat 2 with $209.50.
ChChChChia is at seat 3 with $251.50.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $229.75.
Jizz Is Cumin is at seat 5 with $20.
Kake is at seat 6 with $91.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $302.25.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $763.75.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $206.75.
The button is at seat 9.
The partial kill button is at seat 9.

maverickdmb posts the small blind of $1.
edgourmet posts the big blind of $2.

maverickdmb: -- --
edgourmet: Ts As
bradyman1: -- --
ChChChChia: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
Jizz Is Cumin: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

bradyman1 folds. ChChChChia folds. PhilHellmuth
folds. Jizz Is Cumin folds. Kake folds.
funaaron222 folds. Schilero Won folds. vedder1321
raises to $4. maverickdmb calls. edgourmet calls.


Flop (board: Td Ah 7s):

maverickdmb checks. edgourmet bets $2. vedder1321
calls. maverickdmb folds.

Turn (board: Td Ah 7s 8c):

edgourmet bets $4. vedder1321 raises to $8.
edgourmet calls.

River (board: Td Ah 7s 8c 4d):

edgourmet bets $4. vedder1321 raises to $8.
edgourmet calls.



Showdown:

vedder1321 shows 7d 7h.
vedder1321 has 7d 7h Td Ah 7s: three sevens.
edgourmet mucks cards.
(edgourmet has Ts As.)


Hand #8080952-443 Summary:

$2.25 is raked from a pot of $48.
vedder1321 wins $45.75 with three sevens.
----------------------------------------------------------------


Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #8080952-473 at Turku ($2/$4 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Sep/05 00:38:31

maverickdmb is at seat 0 with $133.
edgourmet is at seat 1 with $204.50.
bradyman1 is at seat 2 with $209.50.
ChChChChia is at seat 3 with $252.75.
PhilHellmuth is at seat 4 with $265.25.
Jizz Is Cumin is at seat 5 with $47.
Kake is at seat 6 with $127.25.
funaaron222 is at seat 7 with $309.25.
Schilero Won is at seat 8 with $683.50.
vedder1321 is at seat 9 with $289.50.
The button is at seat 9.
The partial kill button is at seat 9.

maverickdmb posts the small blind of $1.
edgourmet posts the big blind of $2.

maverickdmb: -- --
edgourmet: Qc 7h
bradyman1: -- --
ChChChChia: -- --
PhilHellmuth: -- --
Jizz Is Cumin: -- --
Kake: -- --
funaaron222: -- --
Schilero Won: -- --
vedder1321: -- --

Pre-flop:

bradyman1 folds. ChChChChia folds. PhilHellmuth
folds. Jizz Is Cumin calls. Kake folds.
funaaron222 calls. Schilero Won folds. vedder1321
calls. maverickdmb calls. edgourmet checks.

Flop (board: Qd Jh 3d):

maverickdmb checks. edgourmet bets $2. Jizz Is
Cumin folds. funaaron222 folds. vedder1321 raises
to $4. maverickdmb folds. edgourmet calls.

Turn (board: Qd Jh 3d 9d):

edgourmet checks. vedder1321 checks.

River (board: Qd Jh 3d 9d 7s):

edgourmet bets $4. vedder1321 calls.



Showdown:

edgourmet shows Qc 7h.
edgourmet has Qc 7h Qd Jh 7s: two pair, queens and sevens.
vedder1321 mucks cards.
(vedder1321 has Kh Qh.)


Hand #8080952-473 Summary:

$1.25 is raked from a pot of $26.
edgourmet wins $24.75 with two pair, queens and sevens.
----------------------------------------------------------------
RCC
Posts: 7019
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: Here for now.

Post by RCC »

um... you may need to work on game selection... :P


Nice to see Helmuth calling in early position with A4o... Good grief...

I was reading that hand, sure that you were outkicked... Very weird.
shemp
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

Post by shemp »

RCC wrote:um... you may need to work on game selection... :P


Nice to see Helmuth calling in early position with A4o... Good grief...

I was reading that hand, sure that you were outkicked... Very weird.
I thought so too, but I had to call it down. Like the guy says when Dirty Harry is standing over him with the gun, "Hey, I gots to know!" It was nice of his sister to donate too.

I felt good about taking money off the pros, too bad I lost a bundle to some fellow schmuck. But I think I'm going to start playing up in these bigger games. They run more like what I've learned in the books I've read. Too many schmucks suck me out at the quarter tables.

At least I didn't end up like "Schilero Won." He lost about $200 while I was there.
RCC
Posts: 7019
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: Here for now.

Post by RCC »

shemp wrote:
RCC wrote:um... you may need to work on game selection... :P


Nice to see Helmuth calling in early position with A4o... Good grief...

I was reading that hand, sure that you were outkicked... Very weird.
I thought so too, but I had to call it down. Like the guy says when Dirty Harry is standing over him with the gun, "Hey, I gots to know!" It was nice of his sister to donate too.

I felt good about taking money off the pros, too bad I lost a bundle to some fellow schmuck. But I think I'm going to start playing up in these bigger games. They run more like what I've learned in the books I've read. Too many schmucks suck me out at the quarter tables.

At least I didn't end up like "Schilero Won." He lost about $200 while I was there.
That way lies madness...

Personally, I'd rather play against worse players, but when there are a bunch of them in holdem there is a phenomenon called "the schooling effect" in that if there are enough people drawing against you to enough hands a semi-strong made hand (top pair + top kicker for example) can actually be somewhat of a longshot despite being "ahead" at the time.


Most literature does a bad job of expaining this. Many people make top pair against 5 players and expect it to hold up more than it should.

Against 5 players I'd rather have the best flush draw than top pair. I'm not throwing top pair away all the time, but if the "texture" of the board indicates that my opponents have many draws and the pot is large, I'm going to realize that I'm likely "on a draw" but in a negative sense -- I'm more drawing that my opponents all miss than that I hit, and it could be that I am "behind" in that my hand does not win it's fair share. In those cases I am "chasing" running safe cards. The ugly thing is that I'm rarely going to know exactly what those safe cards are. With a flush draw I have a good idea of whether my hand is best, and can often be certain. Plus I can fold when I miss.

Whereas in a tougher game this isn't much of a worry as you are often heads up on the flop, but likewise there is less dead money in the pot for that same reason.

Sure, tight, weak, predictable players seem easier than clueless or wild players because they fold too much and are easy to read... but these aren't the ones to worry about, and even at that while there are less swings/suckouts with the predictable players, there is far more money to be won from wild and clueless players as they are the ones who will cap it with you when they make two pair and you have been sitting on a made nut flush since the flop...
shemp
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

Post by shemp »

I felt good too because I played a disciplined game. I only played good hands, I was very conscious of position, and I felt I had decent reads, except for that one hand. I'm sure it didn't help Phil that he was chatting with about 20 spectators.
RCC
Posts: 7019
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: Here for now.

Post by RCC »

I still fucking hate limit omaha h/l...

I do well at it in tournaments, but that is more because I can play tournaments well than anything else. On a ROI (return on investment) basis it is my worst tournament game.

I've got to figure out why I inflict that foul game on myself. I did it this time because a friend asked me to play in it for some odd reason...

Then again maybe "friends don't let friends play limit Omaha 8 or better"

Just sick... and here I wanted to go to sleep early tonight...
shemp
Posts: 7247
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: inbred shit-for-brains
Location: Planet X

Post by shemp »

I see you had a pretty good ROI last night.

I'm not fond of limit 8/b, but I do fairly well at pot limit. I play very tight, then when I get a hand there's usually a couple of chasers.